16 Aug 07
I caught the back end of a discussion on the bbc morning breakfast programme where they were saying that the police have now lost control of the streets. I think they were referring to gangs etc did anyone see it? were they referring to a particular incident or just talking generally?
16 Aug 07
Originally posted by stevetoddThey were trying to scare us into allowing even more police onto the streets! Stop watching TV and hey presto, you feel safe!
I caught the back end of a discussion on the bbc morning breakfast programme where they were saying that the police have now lost control of the streets. I think they were referring to gangs etc did anyone see it? were they referring to a particular incident or just talking generally?
16 Aug 07
Originally posted by MarinkatombI don't feel particularly unsafe, I reckon I could easily handle one or two of the type of punks they are talking about (most of these guys haven't got a clue how to fight, they only pick on victims they know they can handle). It's just that I am currently taking a bit of a risk at the moment buying investment properties in Tottenham in the hope that the forthcoming regeneration makes it a better area, but I am concerned that before that happens that this area will prove problematic.
They were trying to scare us into allowing even more police onto the streets! Stop watching TV and hey presto, you feel safe!
16 Aug 07
Originally posted by stevetoddI grew up in Ardoyne, in North Belfast in the late seventies/early eighties. When the police lose control on the streets the government will send in the army, if the army are not patrolling your streets as we speak then the police probably still have a grip on the situation.
I don't feel particularly unsafe, I reckon I could easily handle one or two of the type of punks they are talking about (most of these guys haven't got a clue how to fight, they only pick on victims they know they can handle). It's just that I am currently taking a bit of a risk at the moment buying investment properties in Tottenham in the hope that the f ...[text shortened]... tter area, but I am concerned that before that happens that this area will prove problematic.
16 Aug 07
Originally posted by stevetoddThat's exactly why they carry weapons and only hang around in gangs.
I don't feel particularly unsafe, I reckon I could easily handle one or two of the type of punks they are talking about (most of these guys haven't got a clue how to fight, they only pick on victims they know they can handle).
16 Aug 07
Originally posted by stevetoddWe are constantly being told to fear this 'group', fear that 'group'. These teenagers that they flash up on our screens are delinquent because the system makes them that way! Native American tribes involved their young in every aspect of their lives from day one. Here it's 'don't do this, don't do that, you're not old enough for this, etc...' If we gave our 'kids' a right of passage from age 16 these situations wouldn't arise in the first place. At 16 an Indian male is sent out into the wilderness for 4 days and 4 nights without food or water. This is to seek a vision from the 'Great Spirit', but it is also to teach them that they need their parents, they need their brothers and sisters cos their survival depends on it. We teach our kids to be selfish and to 'try and get ahead'. If we all helped each other instead of trying to fu-ck each other over all the time we wouldn't have any of these problems. Notice how it's the rich end of society that worries about the riff raff. They're the only ones with anything to lose. More Police means more division, the only people who want that are 'the haves'.
I don't feel particularly unsafe, I reckon I could easily handle one or two of the type of punks they are talking about (most of these guys haven't got a clue how to fight, they only pick on victims they know they can handle). It's just that I am currently taking a bit of a risk at the moment buying investment properties in Tottenham in the hope that the f ...[text shortened]... tter area, but I am concerned that before that happens that this area will prove problematic.
16 Aug 07
Originally posted by MarinkatombAlthough you raise some interesting points in the final analysis I don't think you can blame the 'haves' for the illegal activities of the 'don't haves'. There are plenty of law biding poor pople who are also extremely pleasant.
We are constantly being told to fear this 'group', fear that 'group'. These teenagers that they flash up on our screens are delinquent because the system makes them that way! Native American tribes involved their young in every aspect of their lives from day one. Here it's 'don't do this, don't do that, you're not old enough for this, etc...' If we gave ...[text shortened]... Police means more division, the only people who want that are 'the haves'.
Back to my original question though did you see the full programme? did it raise any points in the bgining that I may have missed, I only caught the last 2 mins.
16 Aug 07
2 edits
Originally posted by stevetoddI don't watch TV and I no longer read the papers either. By bombarding us with information we live our lives believing that the whole thing is too complicated and the only way to live is to fit ourselves into the status quo. Governments don't believe in the inherent goodness of the population, quite the opposite in fact. That's why the News is 99% negative. Have a peak at these...
Although you raise some interesting points in the final analysis I don't think you can blame the 'haves' for the illegal activities of the 'don't haves'. There are plenty of law biding poor pople who are also extremely pleasant.
Back to my original question though did you see the full programme? did it raise any points in the bgining that I may have missed, I only caught the last 2 mins.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151
There are four parts, watch all of them if you can. Very enlightening!
BTW, taking up your response. If there weren't any 'have nots', would we have crime? If we teach our kids to have more than the next kid, it's hardly surprising if the kids who have no hope of getting these things start taking them is it? Without these things, what are they? If we're not consuming, we're consumed. There is another way, TV spends 90% of it's time convincing us otherwise!
EDIT: See also...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8372545413887273321
16 Aug 07
Originally posted by MarinkatombMany of the delinquent teens are from rich backgrounds, they hand about in gangs because it gives them power. It is not so much a have /havenot as you may think.
We are constantly being told to fear this 'group', fear that 'group'. These teenagers that they flash up on our screens are delinquent because the system makes them that way! Native American tribes involved their young in every aspect of their lives from day one. Here it's 'don't do this, don't do that, you're not old enough for this, etc...' If we gave ...[text shortened]... Police means more division, the only people who want that are 'the haves'.
Have you ever tried to help some of the tearaways? They ain't interested. Unless it involves, smoking drinking, vandalism, showing how tough they are etc then its no good.
All you get is there is nothing for us to do, nowhere to go. When was the last time you saw a group of 30-40 kids go down to the park for a kickaround game of football ? Doesn't happen now as its boring!
Kids now are more clued up than we give them credit for. They know that at 9-16 you can't do anything to them, irregardless of what they do to you, as they will get you charged and sue you.
We have made them this way by doing away with capital punishment in schools, crappy court punishments, lack of discipline in the home.
Until people are made to respect things, knowing there will be a penalty for not doing so, we will not right the position we find ourselves in.
16 Aug 07
Originally posted by adramforallI think you meant corporal punishment in schools 🙂
Many of the delinquent teens are from rich backgrounds, they hand about in gangs because it gives them power. It is not so much a have /havenot as you may think.
Have you ever tried to help some of the tearaways? They ain't interested. Unless it involves, smoking drinking, vandalism, showing how tough they are etc then its no good.
All you get i ...[text shortened]... here will be a penalty for not doing so, we will not right the position we find ourselves in.
16 Aug 07
Originally posted by adramforallWell done, you just regurgitated the consensus view to me word for word! Bravo!! That is not reality. These kids you're talking about are excluded from 'adult' society as they are stereotyped into these groups. They are conditioned from birth to view everyone outside their group with suspicion. Conversely they are viewed with suspicion by the establishment. Where does a kid look for security in this situation? Adults?? Not bloody likely, they don't trust them as far as they can through them! Where is left? Their peers. So here we have it, imaginary groups, played off against each other in a climate of fear. You CANNOT blame the kids! They are born into this system, it is up to us adults to give them opportunities and to foster a belief in themselves and society at large. WE are failing them, not the other way around!
Many of the delinquent teens are from rich backgrounds, they hand about in gangs because it gives them power. It is not so much a have /havenot as you may think.
Have you ever tried to help some of the tearaways? They ain't interested. Unless it involves, smoking drinking, vandalism, showing how tough they are etc then its no good.
All you get i ...[text shortened]... here will be a penalty for not doing so, we will not right the position we find ourselves in.