- Joined
- 03 Sep 03
- Moves
- 89331
1 edit
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingNon-existent?
You are a game mod and has the face to say:
"... I understand that using an engine is allowed in correspondence chess..."
Which is your knowledge/understanding of chess competition rules?
Non existent I believe. But anyway you qualify as a game mod...
Oh my.
-J
A quick google search turned up this:
http://www.correspondencechess.com/campbell/articles/a050531.htm
And I quote:
ICCF (International): The main international cc organization International Correspondence Chess Federation is silent on this issue, but consultation with rules experts confirms that it is legal to use computers in any form to assist in making moves. There is some confusion and disagreement concerning the meaning of the section in the Code of Conduct that says, "It is expected that players will decide the moves for themselves. It is unacceptable behaviour to have someone else play your games. The whole ICCF ratings and titles system relies on the assumption that games are played by the players named in the starting lists (or approved substitutes)." I took this to deal with a famous situation where one person competed using another person's name, not to the use of computers or human consultation. Some people interpret this section of the Code of Conduct to prohibit consultation, at least with other players.
The above confirms that a number of cc organizations do prohibit the use of computer engines in competition, but it is also true that a number of other organizations allow it. The main point assumed by some organizations is that it is almost impossible to enforce a prohibition on the use of computers, and players, without a strong expectation of being caught violating a rule, will feel free to break the rule and cheat.
Now who doesn't know the rules, eh? Attack ME without doing your own research? Shame on you.
Originally posted by tmetzlerI'm not attacking you. If you are feeling attacked, sorry, it's your prerrogative.
I don't need to know the rules of other organizations. I only need to know the rules HERE at RHP. Its been discussed here before, and I do believe that many people have said that in SOME Correspondence Chess organizations engine use is allowed, do you refute that?
Attack me all you want. I don't really care. I think that most people here know that I am not one to overstate my abilities.
--tmetzler
IMHO those who are applying rules blindly, without a minimun knowledge of what is going around on the matter, you don't have the required authority to apply "new" or "customized" rules. You simply lack the elementary capacity for judgement, 'cos you lack the knowledge of the well established regulations.
Be honest. and learn the well established rules that guide the practice of the different forms of practicing our loved game.
Regards
-J
1 edit
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingHere's a summary of the Correspondence Chess rules of various organizations which concludes that some do allow engines:
I'm not attacking you. If you are feeling attacked, sorry, it's your prerrogative.
IMHO those who are applying rules blindly, without a minimun knowledge of what is going around on the matter, you don't have the required authority to apply "new" or "customized" rules. You simply lack the elementary capacity for judgement, 'cos you lack the kn ...[text shortened]... es that guide the practice of the different forms of practicing our loved game.
Regards
-J
2. The Rules of Play
Every organization has its own set of rules. In the USA the major cc organizations all forbid the use of chess engines. Following are relevant quotes from the rules of several correspondence chess organizations. For a list of a number of correspondence chess organizations see Links - Correspondence Chess Organizations.
USCF (USA): "Rule 3. You may consult chess books and periodicals but not other players. You cannot use a computer or computer program (chessplaying algorithms) to evaluation a game, but you may use computers for record keeping and databases."
CCLA (USA): "2) Conduct: a) During a game, a player may consult written or published works on chess, but in the selection of moves may not receive help from any other player, chess-playing computer or any mechanical device designed to play, study or discuss the game of chess."
APCT (USA): "It is expected that each player will play his own game. While books or magazines may be consulted, no help or analysis from another player may be employed. Computers may be used for clerical assistance or for reference, but may NOT be used to generate actual moves in a game in progress."
CCCA (Canada): "25. A player may: (a) consult chess works or literature freely. He or she may also use a computer to keep the score of a game and to work with a database of stored games and positions. (b) A player is not allowed to consult with other players, whether members of the association or not, with reference to any current or future possible lines of play in a game which is in progress. Any player known to have obtained aid from another player in analysing current or future positions in an ongoing game shall immediately forfeit the game involved to his or her opponent. Showing a game in progress to another player is most likely going to elicit comments even when not wanted. This practice is to be avoided."
CCLA (Australia): "Players may not use a chess-playing computer (or computer program with a chess-playing function) to assist them in their play."
IECC (International): "8.1 Players are free to consult chess publications or literature in printed or electronic form. Any other form of consultation, including the use of computer chess programmes that analyse a position and suggest moves or play chess games, is prohibited."
IECG (International): (no mention of using computers).
SCCA (Scotland): "24. (a) Assistance or advice concerning the play must not be sought, nor accepted, from any other person or computer program, but books, databases or works of reference may be consulted."
ICCF (International): The main international cc organization International Correspondence Chess Federation is silent on this issue, but consultation with rules experts confirms that it is legal to use computers in any form to assist in making moves. There is some confusion and disagreement concerning the meaning of the section in the Code of Conduct that says, "It is expected that players will decide the moves for themselves. It is unacceptable behaviour to have someone else play your games. The whole ICCF ratings and titles system relies on the assumption that games are played by the players named in the starting lists (or approved substitutes)." I took this to deal with a famous situation where one person competed using another person's name, not to the use of computers or human consultation. Some people interpret this section of the Code of Conduct to prohibit consultation, at least with other players.
The above confirms that a number of cc organizations do prohibit the use of computer engines in competition, but it is also true that a number of other organizations allow it. The main point assumed by some organizations is that it is almost impossible to enforce a prohibition on the use of computers, and players, without a strong expectation of being caught violating a rule, will feel free to break the rule and cheat.
http://correspondencechess.com/campbell/articles/a050531.htm
Before you slam somebody for not knowing the rules, do some research.
EDIT: Damn you, Tmetz, you found the same article! My whole cut and paste was wasted!ðŸ˜
- Joined
- 03 Sep 03
- Moves
- 89331
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingOnce again, I know the rules HERE. What else do I need?
I'm not attacking you. If you are feeling attacked, sorry, it's your prerrogative.
IMHO those who are applying rules blindly, without a minimun knowledge of what is going around on the matter, you don't have the required authority to apply "new" or "customized" rules. You simply lack the elementary capacity for judgement, 'cos you lack the kn ...[text shortened]... es that guide the practice of the different forms of practicing our loved game.
Regards
-J
It was attacking, you tried to use my statement as justification that it was questionable that I was a game mod.
As long as I help enforce the rules HERE, then the rules elsewhere are meaningless.
--tmetzler
Originally posted by no1marauderThis was a matter of another thread, if my memory doesnt fail.
Here's a summary of the Correspondence Chess rules of various organizations which concludes that some do allow engines:
2. The Rules of Play
Every organization has its own set of rules. In the USA the major cc organizations all forbid the use of chess engines. Following are relevant quotes from the rules of several correspondence chess or ...[text shortened]... s/a050531.htm
Before you slam somebody for not knowing the rules, do some research.
The ICCF change the rules because it was impossible to control the use of computer software. Be clever. Search for the rules that were used around the beginnings of the '70s. May be you will learn something.
-J
- Joined
- 03 Sep 03
- Moves
- 89331
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingUhoh, No1 has been playing chess within the rules (i think before the 70's) and well before I was born.
This was a matter of another thread, if my memory doesnt fail.
The ICCF change the rules because it was impossible to control the use of computer software. Be clever. Search for the rules that were used around the beginnings of the '70s. May be you will learn something.
-J
Perhaps YOU need to learn the rules as they exist now.
--tmetzler
1 edit
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingRHP can't share how the team has come up with this first batch of names. If people don't like this batch, and won't bother to investigate on their own, they might consider leaving the site.
I'm not attacking you. If you are feeling attacked, sorry, it's your prerrogative.
IMHO those who are applying rules blindly, without a minimun knowledge of what is going around on the matter, you don't have the required authority to apply "new" or "customized" rules. You simply lack the elementary capacity for judgement, 'cos you lack the kn ...[text shortened]... es that guide the practice of the different forms of practicing our loved game.
Regards
-J
Russ is satisfied with how this team is working, and the teams conclusions so far. There will be more users named, and the best bet is to stop using engines if anyone is not making their moves on their own here at RHP.
I don't want to sound like I'm saying anyone who does not agree should just leave... but... there you have it. It's not going to change back anytime soon, and if people don't trust the work being done, they need to move on.
P-
Edit! I'd like to think this might end the debate, but that's just my personal feelings, and not the feelings of the Game Mods, RHP, or Russ. End disclaimer.
Originally posted by tmetzlerI think I played in the Upstate New York Scholastic Championships in 1971; I didn't realize you were such a young whippersnapper. Shouldn't someone of more maturity be a Game Mod; I thought they had to be at least 50 like Phlabby!
Well i do believe you have said you had 40+ years of chess experience. I just turned 29, so I'd say you've been playing since well before I was born.
--tmetzler
- Joined
- 03 Sep 03
- Moves
- 89331
Originally posted by no1marauderWell I have a super-model-genius fiancee that is 5 years younger than myself; so she ages me quickly -- including pulling out my grey hairs while I am sleeping! So at least I'm on the right track to become an old coot like yourself 🙂
I think I played in the Upstate New York Scholastic Championships in 1971; I didn't realize you were such a young whippersnapper. Shouldn't someone of more maturity be a Game Mod; I thought they had to be at least 50 like Phlabby!
--tmetzler
I would be curious to know what Ironman31's "defense" would be, I've been trying to get a "defense" off him over his engine using for a long,. long, long time, the guy just vanishes when you bring it up...
Anyways, he's a very good player, but he uses engines, why? I don't know.
Originally posted by Checkmate187I don't know if you have a problem with the English language, if you are uneducated, or you are just so overwhelmed with hate for No1 that you want to blow him off(?)
Then again, curse words are an expression of anger that cannot be expressed any other way, like on a forum. This whole thing is bull****.
Anyone is welcome to look at any of my games. I protest the way things have been handled.
So again, I say, blow me.
All I can tell you is that your dialect here impresses nobody. 😲