Public Forums

Originally posted by Suzianne
Part of a democracy is having a voice and using it.

Democracy is not a spectator sport. It requires participation in order to work for all.

Does that mean your answer to my question is "yes"?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Part of a democracy is having a voice and using it.

Democracy is not a spectator sport. It requires participation in order to work for all.

Something we agree on and a point in case could be the example of the recent Brexit vote where allegedly 70+% of "young people" were against leaving, but only 30+% of them bothered to vote.

Originally posted by divegeester
Something we agree on and a point in case could be the example of the recent Brexit vote where allegedly 70+% of "young people were against leaving, but only 30+% of them bothered to vote.

I'd take a bet that the other 40% thought their twitter post would count as a vote.🙄

Originally posted by Kewpie
I'd take a bet that the other 40% thought their twitter post would count as a vote.🙄

😀

Originally posted by FMF
Ouch! The post you were responding to was referencing me. You and I have had many a discussion that required plenty of thought! Perhaps you have forgotten and I have indeed become one of "those folks". :'(

The fact that you aren't ignoring this thread means you aren't one of those folks. IMO.

Edit: I should add that I did not think Seitse was referring to you as either of the "the megalomaniac and his lap dog". I don;t see you as either one of those.

Originally posted by FMF
Do you feel that people who abstain from political discourse (and perhaps also don't participate in decision making) are somehow less part of a democracy than those who do?

No.

Edit: Their behavior has to be taken into account by those who don't abstain and do participate. Not speaking is speech.

Then again, SJ, seeing their automatic defensiveness makes you wonder

Originally posted by JS357
I should add that I did not think Seitse was referring to you as either of the "the megalomaniac and his lap dog". I don;t see you as either one of those.

It's his current very, very funny "innovative" ad nauseam comedy routine on his own-trumpet-blowing thread and elsewhere. 😉

FMF: Do you feel that people who abstain from political discourse (and perhaps also don't participate in decision making) are somehow less part of a democracy than those who do?

Originally posted by JS357
No.

Edit: Their behavior has to be taken into account by those who don't abstain and do participate. Not speaking is speech.

I thought so. I remember you confronting robbie about his affected and purportedly "apolitical stance" on seemingly everything by telling him that his "neutrality" and abstention was a calculated and willfully political stance to take. [My verbosity, perhaps, not necessarily yours]

I recall that he had no non-frivolous reply to what you said. It'd be interesting if he chipped in now and commented on how he sees his avowedly apolitical approach in light of what you put to him.

Originally posted by FMF
The internet empowers people, but it does so indiscriminately. 😛

Only if one has a computer.

We're moving into the age of super technology. With it the elite will control the masses as always.

Your reply to the OP is mundane and without substance. The internet is a poor substitute for reality. Nothing has changed. Democracy isn't enhanced by it nor are we any closer to peace.

FMF: The internet empowers people, but it does so indiscriminately.

Originally posted by josephw
Your reply to the OP is mundane and without substance. The internet is a poor substitute for reality. Nothing has changed. Democracy isn't enhanced by it nor are we any closer to peace.

You have missed my point. When I said "the internet empowers people, but it does so indiscriminately" I was clearly referring to "Public Forums" like this one (the title of the thread) - which are here on the internet.

What you personally happen to think about "the internet", or "reality", or "democracy" or "peace", does not somehow render what I said "without substance".

Indeed, I think the statement you are responding to [i.e. regarding the indiscriminate way in which the internet gives people who use it a voice that can be heard in a way, and to an extent, completely unlike pre-internet times] is not controversial or contentious in any way.

Originally posted by mghrn55
And Donald Trump's name hasn't even been mentioned yet !!

OOPS !!!

Sorry.😳

Save us Hillary!

Save us from the Hitler/anti-Christ/Satan

The world will end if we don't elect her.....him......it.....whatever you want to call Hillary.. 😲

Originally posted by josephw
The internet is a poor substitute for reality. Nothing has changed. Democracy isn't enhanced by it nor are we any closer to peace.

I disagree. If this is true where you live then it is a great pity. If it is not true where you live but you think it is, then it is a great pity for you. It certainly isn't true where I live. The internet absolutely does affect reality and can and does undoubtedly contribute instrumentally to bringing about change, and can do so specifically for people who were hitherto marginalized or entirely powerless.

Take for example one of the areas I work in, which, broadly speaking, is in connection with increasing women’s access to employment, removing discrimination in the workplace, and strengthening women’s leadership in reducing violence against women.

The extraordinary facility that the internet provides for dissemination of information, bringing women (and other stakeholders) affected by these issues together, giving them a voice and access to required target audiences, and allowing them to organize and take action to change their circumstances, has been fundamentally transforming and continues apace.

None of this was possible - to the same extent, and with the same reach - prior to 'the internet'.

I am aware of your cynicism and feeling of powerlessness about the situation in your own country, you have mentioned it many times, but you should pause for thought before projecting your jaundiced assertions and presumptions onto parts of the world you may know nothing about. 😉

Originally posted by FMF
I disagree. If this is true where you live then it is a great pity. If it is not true where you live but you think it is, then it is a great pity for you. It certainly isn't true where I live. The internet absolutely does affect reality and can and does undoubtedly contribute instrumentally to bringing about change, and can do so specifically for people who w ...[text shortened]... our jaundiced assertions and presumptions onto parts of the world you may know nothing about. 😉

"I am aware of your cynicism and feeling of powerlessness about the situation in your own country,"

If you weren't so presumptuous and egocentric you might be aware of the reality that you are merely echoing the machinations of a failing global system. When you pass from the scene the world will not be a better place, but only a regurgitation of the same plight man has faced since day one.

You completely missed my point because you think it your duty to promote and support the establishment. A cog in a wheel. Faith in a man made system destined for the scap heap of human history. Faith in an illusion that will vanish with the passing of time like dust in the wind.

You call it cynicism. I call it realism. Where are all those that came before? How have they benefited from the fruit of their labors in sustaining human achievements?

The world system is held in a balance till that day when all accounts will be settled and life on this planet will be restored to its original purpose. Don't get too attached to this current world system. Set your eyes on the world to come. It's our only hope.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"I am aware of your cynicism and feeling of powerlessness about the situation in your own country,"

If you weren't so presumptuous and egocentric you might be aware of the reality that you are merely echoing the machinations of a failing global system. When you pass from the scene the world will not be a better place, but only a regurgitation of th ...[text shortened]... o attached to this current world system. Set your eyes on the world to come. It's our only hope.[/b]

The internet empowers both optimistic and pessimistic people, and does so indiscriminately. 😉