09 Mar 16
So, a beloved person just got her Alzheimer diagnose. Not a huge
surprise but painful nonetheless. As people age, it is easy to blame
forgetfulness on the pass of time. But then it gets more serious and
other symptoms appear, and there is still a period where we all
brush it off with a nervous laugh, even the occasional joke. And
then it hits you. A fall or a mere cold, then a common visit to the
doctor, with the usual yet sinister 'it's surely nothing but let's run
some tests just to cast away any worries.' And the worries only
increase after that. From the general doctor you go into the
hematologist, then the geriatric nurse followed by the neurologist.
And then you read more about the disease. And then it hits you.
The indignity of dying slowly.
First the words escape them. Then basic functions. And it gets worse
when the faces and names of those most dear are no longer stored
in her mind. Until the most bodily functions condemn the person to
being a sack of flesh and bones being looked after by a tired, somber
nurse. And at the end a simple infection finishes the job. But only after
having existed in the limbo between sentient human being and a
vegetable. Only after the indignity of growing roots and dust and spiderwebs
tied up to a chair, a sofa, or a hospital bed.
The more I think of it, the more I wonder: isn't more dignified to go in
one's own terms?
- Joined
- 23 Nov 09
- Moves
- 136573
09 Mar 16
Originally posted by SeitseIn my opinion it is. I am therefore a member of the NVVE (Dutch organisation of voluntary life ending = https://www.nvve.nl/about-nvve ). I didn't have a choice to be born but I will decide when i'll die.
The more I think of it, the more I wonder: isn't more dignified to go in
one's own terms?
09 Mar 16
Originally posted by KeggeI have been seriously pondering about this issue for the past years. I mean, what
In my opinion it is. I am therefore a member of the NVVE (Dutch organisation of voluntary life ending = https://www.nvve.nl/about-nvve ). I didn't have a choice to be born but I will decide when i'll die.
my position is, how do I feel about it, and what will I do when the time comes.
- Joined
- 23 Nov 09
- Moves
- 136573
09 Mar 16
Originally posted by SeitseIt has taken me years to come to this conclusion. Now that I have made up my mind I feel more at ease about growing older and the downsides that come with it.
I have been seriously pondering about this issue for the past years. I mean, what
my position is, how do I feel about it, and what will I do when the time comes.
10 Mar 16
Originally posted by KeggeThis is very interesting. I guess reaching peace ought to be the happy outcome
It has taken me years to come to this conclusion. Now that I have made up my mind I feel more at ease about growing older and the downsides that come with it.
of any decision. How does it work over there? I mean, paperwork-wise.
- Joined
- 23 Nov 09
- Moves
- 136573
10 Mar 16
Originally posted by SeitseUnfortunately it isn't as easy as just deciding to end your life. Our euthanasia laws demand that your suffering is unbearable and unending before a committee of doctors may agree to your wishes. The debate is of course how to decide what is unbearable and unending. Especially for people suffering from Alzheimer's this is very difficult. Patients in the early phases of the disease often make up their "will" to be euthanized when they no longer recognize the people close to them.
This is very interesting. I guess reaching peace ought to be the happy outcome
of any decision. How does it work over there? I mean, paperwork-wise.
However, before the doctor gives you the lethal dose he asks the patient if he consents to the procedure. And often enough the patient doesn't want to die any more and can not remember he actually made up the will in the first place and even after the will is shown the patient often doesn't change his mind. The doctors will now not continue the procedure because the patient declares he is not suffering unbearably ...
In my opinion we do have a long way to go before we can fully determine when and how to do die with dignity ourselves. Until then you will have to kill yourself when needed.
10 Mar 16
Originally posted by Seitse“There are two kinds of people:
So, a beloved person just got her Alzheimer diagnose. Not a huge
surprise but painful nonetheless. As people age, it is easy to blame
forgetfulness on the pass of time. But then it gets more serious and
other symptoms appear, and there is still a period where we all
brush it off with a nervous laugh, even the occasional joke. And
then it hits you. A fall o ...[text shortened]... bed.
The more I think of it, the more I wonder: isn't more dignified to go in
one's own terms?
those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,'
and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way'"
-C.S. Lewis
10 Mar 16
Originally posted by KeggeI got you guys mixed up with Belgium then. Which was the country moving
Unfortunately it isn't as easy as just deciding to end your life. Our euthanasia laws demand that your suffering is unbearable and unending before a committee of doctors may agree to your wishes. The debate is of course how to decide what is unbearable and unending. Especially for people suffering from Alzheimer's this is very difficult. Patients in the early ...[text shortened]... and how to do die with dignity ourselves. Until then you will have to kill yourself when needed.
towards voluntary death regardless of suffering?
- Joined
- 23 Nov 09
- Moves
- 136573
10 Mar 16
Originally posted by SeitseThe laws in Belgium, Luxembourg and Holland are very similar. I do not know of a country having more liberal laws regarding euthanasia.
I got you guys mixed up with Belgium then. Which was the country moving
towards voluntary death regardless of suffering?
10 Mar 16
Originally posted by KeggeO.k., went through my browsing history. Got confused by a story about people
The laws in Belgium, Luxembourg and Holland are very similar. I do not know of a country having more liberal laws regarding euthanasia.
campaigning for euthanasia even when there is no unbearable suffering.
How do you feel about the requirements being imposed on you right now?
10 Mar 16
Originally posted by KeggeFrom here the desperate go to Switzerland and I think it's called the 'Diignitas Clinic" to gain a dignified end away from the right wing religious mob and the beurocrats.
The laws in Belgium, Luxembourg and Holland are very similar. I do not know of a country having more liberal laws regarding euthanasia.
- Joined
- 23 Nov 09
- Moves
- 136573
10 Mar 16
Originally posted by SeitseIn my opinion everybody should be able to decide themselves if and when they want to end their lives. That is of course already possible by committing suicide the blunt way, but I am an advocate to let people end there lives in a less messy way by using the "Drion pill" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drion's_pill) for instance ... or the Soylent Green treatment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green)
O.k., went through my browsing history. Got confused by a story about people
campaigning for euthanasia even when there is no unbearable suffering.
How do you feel about the requirements being imposed on you right now?
10 Mar 16
Originally posted by KeggeIndeed, even in death there is room for a humane, sensible approach.
In my opinion everybody should be able to decide themselves if and when they want to end their lives. That is of course already possible by committing suicide the blunt way, but I am an advocate to let people end there lives in a less messy way by using the "Drion pill" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drion's_pill) for instance ... or the Soylent Green treatment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green)
It is surprising that Drion's pill has not been beyond the mere theoretical
even though it dates back to the 70s.