Originally posted by asromacalcioBefore 1977 we won the league 9 times, and the UEFA and FA cups twice. Shankley had already been replaced by Paisley by then, he started in about 1960. Since the last time we won the League theres been 2 FA cups, 3 league cups, a UEFA cup and a European Cup. Most teams would consider that a pretty good total. Try to get your history right before commenting.
Liverpool? I mean come on, they say they are the greatest ever but when did they last win the league? They had 12 good years, that's all, out of a history of over 100 years, and that owed to Bill Shankly the likes of whom we'll never see again, who could have got Formby into the top division. Before 1977 and post 1990 they've done nothing but loiter rou ...[text shortened]... an achievement because apart from the twelve years I refer to it's well above your station.
The great Bob Paisley once said that if Manchester United ever got it together everyone else could forget it. Their recent history shows he was right about that. Essentially the strength of the team you can assemble is determined by money, and how much money a side has is determined by Stadium size - bums on seats is what counts. That is until Russian billionaires decided to get involved and messed up the calculation.
We shouldn't gloat about Manchester's fall from dominance. The are having a stinker of a season and are nevertheless second. On a bad year. Liverpool have to show that they can play the way they are now for an entire season before we can start crowing...
As an afterthought, Ferguson's not a great manager for what he's done at Manchester. He's a great manager because he managed to win the Cup Winners Cup with Aberdeen - now there's an achievement.
Originally posted by welsharnieI personally think Liverpool have a better team than UTD.
Liverpool now have a very good team, as good as Utds, and are now right back in it.
Man for man UTD are stronger.
I believe UTD will sort themselves out team wise and claim 2nd.
& I strongly believe Liverpool stand an excellent chance of retaining the champs league.
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Originally posted by dan182I'm not sure it's as simple as one-for-one replacement attempt for Keane. As with how a centre-half is often only as good as the one he's playing alongside, I reckon the same is true in the middle of the park. A massive factor in Liverpool's success is the Sissoko, Alonso, Gerrard triumvirate, with Sissoko sitting all of the time, Alonso sitting half the time, and Gerrard free to roam. Chelsea are not dissimilar, with Makelele holding, Essien box-to-box à la Alonso and Lampard attacking like Gerrard. After flirting with 4-5-1 (mostly in Europe), Fergie is back to four across the middle, but I'm not sure Scholes is the player he was, nor Park/Giggs/Ronaldo on the wings as effective as Giggs/Beckham were. If Scholes was flying and the wingers on form then a one-for-one replacement for Keane would probably be sufficient and Fletcher/Smith or even O'Shea would probably be good enough in there. Right now it seems like the midfield as a unit isn't functioning (relatively), and that a straight Keane replacement would help, but not solve.
Agreed utd do need a replacement for Keane, but i am unsure as to who. Gettuso would be my bet but whether he would want to come & whether Milan will sell him is another story. Ballack would also be good & i reckon we stand an outside chance of landing him.
daniel
To be fair though, Park is in his first season, Scholes comes and goes but will surely be 'back' soon, Ronaldo will have a better season next year so perhaps you're right, maybe they do just need one 'big name' player like Gattuso.
PS: Is Darren Fletcher Fergie's love child. He certainly does seem very fond of him.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtSo that's once for every ten years of your history. Would you be happy to win it once a decade now? Paisley was great but Shankly made it happen.
Before 1977 we won the league 9 times, and the UEFA and FA cups twice. Shankley had already been replaced by Paisley by then,
Good luck for the rest of the season.
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Originally posted by DeepThoughtA stinker of a season? Certainly true re: Europe but their form in the Premiership has hardly been stinking. They've lost only three games in the league and have 48 points from 23 games. I doubt that's much behind previous season's total at this stage. They're also in the last four of the Carling Cup and through to the next round of the FA Cup. I don't like them much, but not too sure I'd describe their season overall as stinking.
We shouldn't gloat about Manchester's fall from dominance. The are having a stinker of a season and are nevertheless second. On a bad year. Liverpool have to show that they can play the way they are now for an entire season before we can start crowing...
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Originally posted by asromacalcioNot a lot, he's probably busy servicing those interest repayments. Operating profit for the fiscal year ending June 2005 was down £12m to £46m, but only two months of that period corresponded to Glazer ownership so bit hard to tell. Fergie was given around £12m to spend on players during this window, with more supposed to be coming in the summer. Other than that, I don't think Malcolm Glazer has been to many games - his sons are fairly regular attendees. Attendance figures overall haven't suffered. Fergie came out the other day saying that the Glazers were fine owners and he had no problems with them at all, an attitude that's probably not quite in-keeping still with the majority of the fans.
As I live abroad I'm out of touch, but what's the latest take on Malcolm Glazer?
Originally posted by T1000I think a big name holding midfielder in the Makalele mould is all it will take. United need to back to 4-4-2 with something like this
I'm not sure it's as simple as one-for-one replacement attempt for Keane. As with how a centre-half is often only as good as the one he's playing alongside, I reckon the same is true in the middle of the park. A massive factor in Liverpool's success is the Sissoko, Alonso, Gerrard triumvirate, with Sissoko sitting all of the time, Alonso sitting half the time, ...[text shortened]... S: Is Darren Fletcher Fergie's love child. He certainly does seem very fond of him.
VanN
Rooney
Giggs
Scholes
TBA - Gattuso or such
Ronaldo
Heizne (evra for some or switch silvestre to left back)
Ferdinand
Brown / Silvestre
Gazza Neville
VanDerS
And then having
Saha
Evra
Solksjaer
Fletcher
Park
O'Shea
as the bench and UTD would look much stronger as there is reasonable cover in most areas.
Smith may prove a cobatative holding midfielder but it will take minimum 1 season but i reckon it takes years before you can be called world class in that position.
Fletcher has had some ok games then some s**t ones. They both scots so that is all i can think of.
Originally posted by dan182I disagree. I think if you went through the first 11 of each team in a man to man comparison, Liverpool would edge it...
I personally think Liverpool have a better team than UTD.
Man for man UTD are stronger.
I believe UTD will sort themselves out team wise and claim 2nd.
& I strongly believe Liverpool stand an excellent chance of retaining the champs league.
Reina - Van Der Sar
Finnan - Gary Neville
Carragher - Brown
Hyypia - Ferdinand
Riise - Heinze
Sissoko - Ronaldo
Alonso - Smith
Gerrard - Scholes
Kewell - Giggs
Cisse - Rooney
Crouch - Van Nistlerooy
(I have assumed Gerrard will be the attacking midfielder in a 4-4-2)
If i had to pick a team from that lot then it would be, this is based purely on the skill of a player in that position & not how well he may play with somebody else as his partner.
Van Der Sar
Gary Neville
Carragher
Ferdinand
Riise
Ronaldo
Alonso
Gerrard
Giggs
Van Nisterooy
Rooney
7 United
Originally posted by dan182I disagree on VDS and Ronaldo.
Reina - Van Der Sar
Finnan - Gary Neville
Carragher - Brown
Hyypia - Ferdinand
Riise - Heinze
Sissoko - Ronaldo
Alonso - Smith
Gerrard - Scholes
Kewell - Giggs
Cisse - Rooney
Crouch - Van Nistlerooy
(I have assumed Gerrard will be the attacking midfielder in a 4-4-2)
If i had to ...[text shortened]... ragher
Ferdinand
Riise
Ronaldo
Alonso
Gerrard
Giggs
Van Nisterooy
Rooney
7 United
Reina has been widely regarded as the best keeper in the prem. this season. I think for all Ronaldo's flair, he lacks end product. He is too much of a show pony. His crossing is weak (I believe he plays a different role for Portugal, which suits him better from what I have heard).
In addition there is the possibility of Kromkamp in DC for Liverpool, who I haven't seen too much of, but he could well challenge Hyypia for the slot in the Liverpool XI, and very likely Ferdinand in the amalgam of the two teams you have chosen.
I make it 6-5 to Liverpool by my choices.
Originally posted by welsharnieI understand what you are saying about Ronaldo, but he has lit up a Euro champs competition, he also had a great first season - fair enough he has been weeker this season. However to date Sissoko has not done anything. So I do not see how you can take him over Ronaldo.
I disagree on VDS and Ronaldo.
Reina has been widely regarded as the best keeper in the prem. this season. I think for all Ronaldo's flair, he lacks end product. He is too much of a show pony. His crossing is weak (I believe he plays a different role for Portugal, which suits him better from what I have heard).
In addition there is the possibility o ...[text shortened]... in the amalgam of the two teams you have chosen.
I make it 6-5 to Liverpool by my choices.
As for the goalies they have both been good since thier arrivals but VDS has achieved more.
Further from this we argue Heinze v Riise. I picked Riise purely because of what he has achieved with Liverpool. I think he is a fantastic player skilled, versatile & always gives 100% but in fairness Heinze could well be a better left back. At the end of the day I won't take him ahead of a proven player on the basis of one good season. As a squad player then I would certainly take Riise given he can play in midfield, but man for man at left back Heinze may shade it.
At the end of day you can take Reina but I certainly would not take Sissoko over Ronaldo on what I have seen to date.