Originally posted by RBHILLOK, I will give you this. That idiotic series "Left Behind" must be proof that there is an eternity as that series never seems to end. There's just too much money to be made. Praise the Lord!
The 144,000 are Jews who come to now Jesus after He comes for his people. This Jews are the one who realize they missed the Massiah and accept Him and witness to the lost.
Paul Dirac you should read the Book series called (Left Behind) it is about the book of Revelation.
Hey, RB, when do you think Hal Lindsey will get it right?
Matt. 19:16-18 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou sh ...[text shortened]... , and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. (Titus 3:5 KJV)
Feivel
The Rich Young Man
16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18"Which ones?" the man inquired.
19Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,'and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "
20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
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19:16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
To this man seeking assurance of eternal life, Jesus pointed out that salvation does not come from good deeds unaccompanied by love for God. The man needed a whole new starting point. Instead of adding another commandment to keep or good deed to perform, the young man needed to submit humbly to the lordship of Christ.
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19:17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
In response to the young man's question about how to have eternal life. Jesus told him to keep God"s Ten Commandments. Jesus then listed 6 of them, all refferring to relationships with others. When the young man replied that he had kept the commandments, Jesus told him that he must do something more--sell everything and give the money to the poor. Jesus' statement exposed the man's weakness. In reality, his wealth was his god, his idol, and he would not give it up. Thus he violated the first and greatest commandment (Exodus 20:3; Matthew 22:36-40).
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19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
When Jesus told this young man that he would "be perfect" if he gave everything he had to the poor, Jesus wasn't speaking in the temporal, human sense. He was explaining how to be justified and made whole or complete in God's sight.
Should all believers sell everything they own? No. We are responsible to care for our own needs and the needs of our families so as not to be a burden on others. We should, however, be willing to give up anything if God asks us to do so. This kind of attitudeallows nothing to come between us and God and keeps us from using our God-given wealth selfishly. If you are comforted by the fact that Christ did not tell all his followers to sell all their possessions, then you may be too attached to what you have.
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19:22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
We cannot love God with all our hearts and yet keep money to ourselves. Loving him totally means using our money in ways that please him.
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19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Because it is impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, it appears impossible for a rich person to get into the Kingdom of God. Jesus explained, however, that "with God all things are possible" (19:26). Even rich people can enter the Kingdom if God brings them in. Faith in Chirst, not in self or riches, is what counts. On what are you counting for salvation?
Good works won't get you there, that would make you count on yourself and not God. God does all the saving work.
The disciples were astonished. They thought that if anyone could be saved, it would be the rich, whom their culture considered especially blessed by God.
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19:27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
In the Bible, God gives rewards to his people according to his justice. In the Old Testament, obedience often brought reward in this life (Deuteronemy 28), but obedience and immediate reward are not always linked. If they were, good people would always be rich, and suffering would always be a sign of sin. As believers, our true reward is God's presence and power through the Holy Spirit. Later, in eternity, we will be rewarded for our faith and service. If material rewards in this life came to us for every faithful deed, we would be tempted to boast about our achievements and act out of wrong motivations.
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19:29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Jesus assured the disciples that anyone who gives up something valuable for his sake will be repaid many times over in this life, although not necessarily in the same form. For example, a person may be rejected by his or her family for accepting Christ, but he or she will gain the larger family of believers.
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Originally posted by RBHILLSo jesus says our salvation is based on works (follow the commandments). now how is our salvation assured if the bible can't agree on how we are saved?
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. (Titus 3:5 KJV)
The Rich Young Man
16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "T ...[text shortened]... e larger family of believers.
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Feivel
3 edits
Originally posted by Feivel
Just a little counter spam 🙂
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Next to Jesus probably no topic occupies the Christian mind more than salvation. We must do everything to be saved assuming, of course, salvation exists. We must obtain et ...[text shortened]... h with the preachers as the book from which they preach.
Feivel
Some scriptural passages say you are saved by works; others say you are saved by faith; others say your destiny has already been predetermined; and still others say it is decided by God's whim. He simply looks down and arbitrarily selects those He wants.It helps, whenever you are trying to discern what scripture is teaching you, to read the verses before and after, read the who chapter if that helps, and look at other books and chapters. In the case of Matthew 19:16-19 (the story of the rich young man, it is only necessary to look a few verses past vs. 19 to understand what Jesus is trying to teach.
Mat 19:16-19 ESV And behold, a man came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?" (17) And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." (18) He said to him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, (19) Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."Stoping here gives you only part of the story:
Mat 19:20-22 ESV The young man said to him, "All these I have kept. What do I still lack?" (21) Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." (22) When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.Not only does he have to obey the law with perfection, he has to give away all that he has and follow Jesus. Wow! Impossible!
Clearly, according to Jesus salvation is obtained by works. Good works, good deeds, following the commandments are all that is necessary. Jesus said nothing about believing in anything. Faith or belief isn't even mentioned.What do you think it means when Jesus says "come, follow me" in verse 22? It does not mean to follow Jesus around like a puppy. The disciples were following Jesus - they were followers of Jesus. If you were to become a follower, that means you are accepting the Lordship of Jesus. That would also entails believing his teachings - believing the 'word' of Jesus. In other words - following Jesus means believing in Jesus. (I can give you more information about what it means to believe or have faith if you are confused.)
Now, if there ever has been an opportunity given to the Almighty to furnish a man of an inquiring mind with the necessary information upon that subject, here was the opportunity...Yes, it does seem like a missed opportunity here. Jesus could have given this rich kid the information he needed, and obtained a rich sponsor for his group. But remember, this is the Bible; there's usually some point for it being written down, and that has to do with the readers of the text. The lesson is for us.
Incidentally, only five of the Ten Commandments were listed and "Love thy neighbor is not even a commandment. It's actually found in Leviticus 19:18.This rich kid responds to Jesus's demands for perfect obedience to the law by saying 'no problem dude, what else do I need?' Here you should know that the kid already lost. Here he is, he thinks he has followed the law perfectly. But I don't think he's been listening very carefully. For the kid missed something that Feivel has caught. Jesus threw in a commandment that is not part of the "official" 10. The kid thinks he has kept the "10" but he did not notice that Jesus said: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (vs 19).
Clearly the kid did not give it much thought because his response was 'ok, what's the catch?' But Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself. So was Jesus making an error here?
Let's look at another part of Matthew, chapter 22 starting at verse 35:
Mat 22:35-40 ESV And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. (36) "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" (37) And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. (38) This is the great and first commandment. (39) And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (40) On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."Here we have it. Jesus has summarized ALL of the 10 commandment with 2: love God with all of your heart, mind, and soul; love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus has raised the bar here. He is saying that the 10 commandments are more than the simple list of do's and don'ts; it is essentially to love God with all you have, and love your neighbor as yourself.
But lets get back to where we were because there's more.
Apparently, being perfect (which is impossible) is not enough. The kid wants more so Jesus hits him with it and the kid goes home dejected.
So Jesus says keep the law with perfection, both the letter and heart of the law, and believe in him (because that's the least a follower would need to do). So how can anyone be saved??? Even the disciples were upset by this. And Jesus does not make it easer:
Mat 19:23 And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven.But wait it get's worse:
Mat 19:24 ESV Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God."The disciples are blown away:
Mat 19:25 ESV When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"But Jesus gives the answer to the question - how can ANYONE possibly go to heaven?
Mat 19:26 ESV But Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."With man, this is impossible, but with God, ALL things are possible.
It is impossible for man, of his own accord to:
(1) keep the law technically perfect, and keep the heart of the law perfectly
(2) give up all you have and become a follower (a believer) of Jesus.
But with God, all these things are possible.
(1) Jesus death on the cross takes away our sins (perfect obedience)
(2) The faith to believe in Jesus is a gift of God
So what has appeared to be a story about how Jesus blows off this rich kid, is really an object lesson for us. Jesus is setting us up for what is to come later in the Bible. He is showing that no one can go to heaven except through him. The only way that man can make it to heaven by his own accord, is perfect obedience, which is IMPOSSIBLE. Jesus' whole point comes down to Matthew 19:26:
..."With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."Would you like to see how this further ties into salvation by faith alone or predestination? You quoted some interesting verses, but the perspective of your source seems a bit skewed. He can not see the forest for the trees so to speak.
Originally posted by FeivelIf you were saved by works then Jesus would not of died on the cross for us he would not have even came to the Earth in human form.
So jesus says our salvation is based on works (follow the commandments). now how is our salvation assured if the bible can't agree on how we are saved?
Feivel
Originally posted by RBHILL19:16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. (Titus 3:5 KJV)
The Rich Young Man
16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "T ...[text shortened]... e larger family of believers.
_____________________________________________________________
To this man seeking assurance of eternal life, Jesus pointed out that salvation does not come from good deeds unaccompanied by love for God. The man needed a whole new starting point. Instead of adding another commandment to keep or good deed to perform, the young man needed to submit humbly to the lordship of Christ.
That sounds great but the fact is that jesus answered by saying keep the commandments...seems like works NOT faith
19:17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
In response to the young man's question about how to have eternal life. Jesus told him to keep God"s Ten Commandments. Jesus then listed 6 of them, all referring to relationships with others. When the young man replied that he had kept the commandments, Jesus told him that he must do something more--sell everything and give the money to the poor. Jesus' statement exposed the man's weakness. In reality, his wealth was his god, his idol, and he would not give it up. Thus he violated the first and greatest commandment (Exodus 20:3; Matthew 22:36-40).
As I said earlier his response was to keep the commandments. Nothing more, nothing less...still works based salvation...NOT faith. As towards the number of commandments, where do you get 6 (or should I say where did your commentary get 6)? There are only 5 unless your commentary decided that the new testament edited the old testament. Let me post the verses you omitted:
He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? (Matthew 19:18-20 KJV)
Let's see - 1 is do not murder, 2 is do not commit adultery, 3 is don't steal, 4 is do not bear false witness, 5 is honor thy father and mother (your personal favorite), 6 is love thy neighbor as thyself is not a commandment unless you can show it to me in Exodus 20. Love thy neighbor as thyself is a part of the Shema. So apparently you should go get a more "correct" version of your commentary.
19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
When Jesus told this young man that he would "be perfect" if he gave everything he had to the poor, Jesus wasn't speaking in the temporal, human sense. He was explaining how to be justified and made whole or complete in God's sight.
You know reading this again really points out something quite amazing. The answer jesus gave...follow the commandments AND give charity. Besides being works again, this is a purely Jewish answer although I doubt many christians would admit it. Did you know Jewish (Orthodox) homes have what is called a Tzdakah box. You care to know what Tzadakah is? It is charity. Now someone please tell me again that jesus went against the Jews and christianity isn't an invention of Paul.
Should all believers sell everything they own?
According to the above verse and others in the new testament yes they should. Imagine your guru Graham without his caddilac 🙂
We are responsible to care for our own needs and the needs of our families so as not to be a burden on others
What was that verse about the lilies....give up ALL your worldly possessions and have faith that your daddy in heaven will provide 🙂
19:22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
We cannot love God with all our hearts and yet keep money to ourselves. Loving him totally means using our money in ways that please him.
Now even you could see this is clearly NOT what the verse says. He went away sad. Why? For the same reason you would. You worked hard for what you got (or you inherited, or were given) and you didn't want to give it up. That's all...no "spiritualization."
19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
I can't believe you bring this verse up. I really suggest that you study this verse in Aramaic (close cousin of Hebrew and the language of jesus and the apostles) . Actually, I can teach you something here. The eye of the needle which is often considered to be a geographic location is not. This verse has been mistranslated. The Aramaic word (yes we have an Aramaic text) is Gamalia. Aramaic, like Hebrew, is EXTREMELY context sensitive. For an example I am sure most here are familiar with the Hebrew word Shalom. It can mean hello, goodbye or peace depending on the context Gamalia does in certain cases mean camel as it was translated. Funny thing is the secondary meaning is large rope. Remember the context and you tell me which was said.
Feivel
Originally posted by Feivelwell you see he could not keep the commandments he broke the first one and that is sin and sin is spiritual death. That is why he needed to follow and accept Jesus.
[b]19:16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
To this man seeking assurance of eternal life, Jesus pointed out that salvation does not come from good deeds unaccompanied by love for God. The man needed a whole new starting point. Instead of adding another commandment to keep or good deed to perfo ...[text shortened]... ary meaning is [b]large rope. Remember the context and you tell me which was said.
Feivel[/b]