Originally posted by sardodos How about allowing people precisely 14 (21?) days Vacation flag On per year............timed by the site. Then you could use this at will.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels that there is room for improvement in this area.
Originally posted by sardodos How about allowing people precisely 14 (21?) days Vacation flag On per year............timed by the site. Then you could use this at will.
The problems with this approach have been mentioned.
Originally posted by mrmist The problems with this approach have been mentioned.
In this thread.
Repeatedly.
In your opinion. Look, everybody is entitled to express their view and not have to change their mind just because someone chooses to take a contrary position. The original point of this thread was for Sundown to make his position known about how he feels about people moving with their vacation flag on - let's just leave it at that shall we?
Originally posted by mwmiller I thought at one time that if your vacation sign was on, you could not move in your games. You had to turn it off first in order to move. Or did I just imagine that?
regards, Marc
this did used to be the case but it was changed so that you could move with the vacationicon on for 2 reasons:
1) as coleman siad, some people may find time to make 1 or 2 moves while away. Apart from Exy's point that a green dot next to a vacation icon looks bad your opponent is very unlikely to be watching the screen during the 5 minutes you are making the move so would not even know if you had taken your flag down and then put it back up again while moving
2) When people get back from holiday they often have many games [past T/O. If they have to drpo their vacation flag to move in the first game then they may get timed out in all the others before they get chance to move. Many people resist taking T/O when the vacation flag is up but how many will forget that X has only just taken his flag off so they'd better give him a few hours to catch up before taking T/O?? Enabling moves while the flag is up allows people to catch up on all of their games before dropping the flag. This too has the effect of having green dots necxt to vacation flags. I'd rather get rid of the green dot than change the VF rules.
Originally posted by belgianfreak this did used to be the case but it was changed so that you could move with the vacationicon on for 2 reasons:
1) as coleman siad, some people may find time to make 1 or 2 moves while away. Apart from Exy's point that a green dot n ...[text shortened]... taken your flag down and then put it back up again while moving
You had to start it up again, didn't you? You wouldn't let it lie! 😉
I see green dots next to vacation flags in my stack every day I play, without fail.
I am playing over 100 games so perhaps I'm not typcial but I see those flags and I see those dots next to 'em! As long as they keep moving and don't let that time bank lapse they're safe! 😵
Originally posted by sardodos How about allowing people precisely 14 (21?) days Vacation flag On per year............timed by the site. Then you could use this at will.
that would make the site unworkable for anyone who had more than 21 days holiday/business travel per year.
Originally posted by belgianfreak that would make the site unworkable for anyone who had more than 21 days holiday/business travel per year.
If you're lucky enough to get more than 21 days holiday a year then you've got plenty of time to make your chess moves, my friend! Now stop your whining and move before I time you out! 😏
Some of us have business travel. Usually this is short, but sometimes it is 5+ days.
When I am away on business, I don't have time for chess. 21-days per year can be a hardship for me. I manage this with timebanks for now,
but it would be great to come up with a general solution.
Please see and comment on the proposal I posted in:
I was being flippant in my last post, not serious. 😉
To be honest I am not going to comment any further. I've tried in many threads to present practical solutions that I think would resolve these issues fairly but there is always someone who has an objection for one reason or another.
So, for me, if things remain as they are I will never use the vacation flag myself, as I believe it to be as much use as a chocolate teapot! If I know I am leaving the civalised world and won't be able to log on for some time I will ensure that I set up long time banks in advance, failing that I will expect to lose the games and be pleasantly surprised if I am not timed out.
I will continue to remind any players immediately when they are due to move but I have no sympathy for people who use up their entire 14 day time bank before I've used a single second of mine and then stick the flag on and carry on moving, thinking I won't notice - your skulls are mine! 😛
Originally posted by Coletti Did you brain shut down while waiting for your opponent to move?
Did the clock stop ticking when the vacation flag went up?
You're going to whine because your opponent MOVED, not because he didn't?!?
I don't know about you, but when I go on vacation, it usually involves travel. I can't be certain that I'll have access to the Internet. If you ...[text shortened]... it. It's only a courtesy to you.
So which are you going to be, the jerk, or the mensch.
Other then stating the obvious fact that you are an idiot,Coletti,I have nothing to say to you.
I'm sure this is entirely superfluous, but I feel compelled to post that I agree with colleman, coletti and orfeo. The VF is not something that carries any real compulsion. It is informative and a simple request for courtesy. Especially now that Russ has implemented a message to go with it, we can use it as it ought to be used -- to signal our intentions.
As an example, I recently was on vacation for a couple of weeks. I put on my VF with a message indicating how long I expected to be gone and said that I expected to be able to have access to a computer a couple of times during my trip, but that I expected to be less prompt about moving than usual. Informative, I hope. Any of my opponents could see what was going on. I put up the flag and the message not because I expected to run out of TB in any of my games, but out of simple courtesy to my opponents who might wonder why I was ignoring them when I usually move quite frequently.
"Time management" is well and good. I also tried to refrain from starting any new games in the period preceding my trip, but despite my best efforts, I was not able to finish out all my games before the trip. In fact, I have one game that has been going on since early February despite the fact that I hardly ever have failed to move for as much as 24 hours after my opponent has moved. At the present rate, that game may still drag on for months. 🙁 I will never again accept a game with a 14-day timeout unless I know the other player normally moves a LOT faster than that. Still, I have no real right to complain as he has never failed to move within (if only by an hour a couple of times) the agreed TO.
The vacation flag is not a means of "saving" me from the consequences of abuse. It is simply a means of being courteous to my opponents.
If my opponent times me out whilst I am away (especially if they are losing) then they clearly have no sense of the true meaning of sport. I will simply not play that individual again out of choice (clan/tournament games cannot be avoided it seems).
If my opponent respsects the flag and continues to play regardless of their position within game then they are true to the game - I like that.
If my opponent chooses to always stick the vacation flag on between moves, for whatever reason, then so be it. I state in my profile I will respect a vacation flag and I stand by that as that is how I would like to be treated when I use the flag.
If the above means I eventually lose a game I could have timed out, then tough on me, it's not like it hurt me or anything. If it prolongs an evenly matched, good game, (especially if I end up winning!) then that is all for the good of the sport as I want to play it.
If a player does not have their flag on and the timeout is there, I may take it... that is my choice as the opponent.
In tournaments the game will time out automtically, for the good of the site. I cannot avoid this and so I accept it.
The rules are the same for everyone who uses the site, like them or not, so get used to them.
Vacationers who move while their flag is up
06 Jul '04 08:40
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