question on en passant

question on en passant

Only Chess

chemist

Linkenheim

Joined
22 Apr 05
Moves
660169
22 Jan 14

Sometimes people here end with a "frozen game" since the only possible move is the en passant adn they fail to realize this.

In OTB would an arbiter in that situation explain the en passant move or would that constitute "outside help". So should a person lose on time if they don't know the move?

FL

Joined
21 Feb 06
Moves
6830
22 Jan 14

There are two basic scenarios, both of which I have seen when controlling junior tournaments / matches:

1) Both players think it is stalemate. Result: Draw. I will show them the move after the game and explain en passant properly (or ask someone else to do so) away from other players so as not to disturb them.

2) One player thinks it is stalemate, his opponent says it isn't (not usually clear if he knows his opponent can take e.p.). I will give it a few minutes, but stand nearby, to see if he can work it out for himself. If and when he claims a draw I will explain that it's not stalemate and ask them to think of any special rules for pawns, then if this isn't enough I show them their only legal move.

Of course there are lots of undocumented rules for games between youngsters, for example, what to do if both sides are in check, or one has two light squared or two dark squared bishops.

One interesting situation is when one player clearly doesn't know how to checkmate with king and rook or even king and queen against king - I always insist on the 50 move rule in those sort of cases, much to the annoyance of some of the other adult helpers (50 moves can feel like a long time if it's the last game of the round to finish), because I've found that a surprising number of players manage to work it out after 20 or so moves and because a lot of defenders rush their king to a nice safe corner.

chemist

Linkenheim

Joined
22 Apr 05
Moves
660169
22 Jan 14

Thank you for that explanation.

R
Acts 13:48

California

Joined
21 May 03
Moves
227543
22 Jan 14

In blitz if my opponent doesn't know what to do I just tell them and then send a link to a website explaining the rules.

C
Cowboy From Hell

American West

Joined
19 Apr 10
Moves
55013
22 Jan 14

Originally posted by RBHILL
In blitz if my opponent doesn't know what to do I just tell them and then send a link to a website explaining the rules.
And then the guy times out while reading the rules.
Well played RB 🙂

s

Joined
05 Nov 08
Moves
13417
22 Jan 14
2 edits

Originally posted by Ponderable
Sometimes people here end with a "frozen game" since the only possible move is the en passant adn they fail to realize this.

I don't think I've ever seen a position arising from an actual game where the only legal move was en passant

R
Acts 13:48

California

Joined
21 May 03
Moves
227543
22 Jan 14

Originally posted by ChessPraxis
And then the guy times out while reading the rules.
Well played RB 🙂
Obviously he would read it after the game.

e4

Joined
06 May 08
Moves
43363
22 Jan 14
1 edit

Hi St 40.

Game 6145235

This was the final position. White has just played 35.c2-c4+


White then posts in Thread 110369

"I'm white and I believe my opponent is in checkmate, but for
some reason it says opponents move....

Have I missed something????"

Someone told him about en passant (the only legal move) and all kinds
of hell broke loose (see and read the thread).

About to post a really funny e.p. checkmate in the next blog (about one hour from now.)

s

Joined
05 Nov 08
Moves
13417
23 Jan 14

Hi GP

As I typed that I thought "I bet GP will find one...", you didn't disappoint..

e4

Joined
06 May 08
Moves
43363
23 Jan 14

Blog done:

http://www.redhotpawn.com/blog/blogread.php?blogpostid=158

S
Caninus Interruptus

2014.05.01

Joined
11 Apr 07
Moves
92274
23 Jan 14

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi St 40.

Game 6145235

This was the final position. White has just played 35.c2-c4+

[fen]7r/p6p/4Qp2/Pkp5/1pP5/1P3P2/1B1r3P/R6K b - C4 0 35[/fen]
White then posts in Thread 110369

"I'm white and I believe my opponent is in checkmate, but for
some reason it says opponents move....

Have I missed something????"

Some ...[text shortened]... ead).

About to post a really funny e.p. checkmate in the next blog (about one hour from now.)
Ahh, those were the days. Wearing down over-emotional posters with incisive logic and poignant examples while effortlessly smacking down random hecklers.

I have now knuckled under and don't care about people discussing games in progress anymore. So many people here are determined for this not to be a serious chess site that I've fallen in line.

e4

Joined
06 May 08
Moves
43363
23 Jan 14

You were magnificent SG. You stuck to your guns and blasted away.
Loved the way you kept composing those positions to prove a point.

Don't let them wear you down. You used to enjoy a good forum stramash as much I do. (did)
Remember all the rows I had with the computer guys.

Cheer up. Show us the quickest mate with an e.p. capture.

Or better still. I need a study (for the blog) to show the lads the true
power of a Queen on an open board.
Something like this, (very hastily done) but sounder with even more pieces
getting captured. If you can get all 7 pieces (forced) that would be just perfect.

chemist

Linkenheim

Joined
22 Apr 05
Moves
660169
23 Jan 14
1 edit

Originally posted by st40
I don't think I've ever seen a position arising from an actual game where the only legal move was en passant
My question arose after I posted in that thread:

Thread 157463

In fact I "only" told the players to look up special moves, but wasn't sure if that constituted outside help or not.

OK. Not only should one check all checks but also all posts in the thread. Well done GP!

e4

Joined
06 May 08
Moves
43363
23 Jan 14

Hi Ponders.

I suppose it comes down how you interpretate TOS.

Telling someone to look up the rules because they have not been playing long is IMO OK.
You are not telling them what to play - just to do a re-read of the rules.

If someone posts a position from a GIP and asks for advice then that is a clear no-no.

If we were very strict on this rule then very little will be posted.
A thread has been started about the QGA (not read it yet) but if opening
ideas start appearing then is that against TOS?
For all we know and the chances are in the positive, that there are a
couple of dozens QGA's just starting with different players.
We could be infact speaking about a dozen GIP's.

Regarding the game posted in Thread 157463.
(I won't give the game ID as it is still in progress.) 😉

An odd post that one because both players in the past have played in games where an e.p. featured.

Their most recent finished games (2012) are Game 8964748 and Game 9598145

C
Cowboy From Hell

American West

Joined
19 Apr 10
Moves
55013
04 Feb 14

Originally posted by st40
I don't think I've ever seen a position arising from an actual game where the only legal move was en passant
Thread 157785
It happens all the time. It seems to always happen to the people who don't know about en passant.

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