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  1. Subscriber Ponderable
    chemist
    22 Jan '14 11:23
    Sometimes people here end with a "frozen game" since the only possible move is the en passant adn they fail to realize this.

    In OTB would an arbiter in that situation explain the en passant move or would that constitute "outside help". So should a person lose on time if they don't know the move?
  2. 22 Jan '14 11:47
    There are two basic scenarios, both of which I have seen when controlling junior tournaments / matches:

    1) Both players think it is stalemate. Result: Draw. I will show them the move after the game and explain en passant properly (or ask someone else to do so) away from other players so as not to disturb them.

    2) One player thinks it is stalemate, his opponent says it isn't (not usually clear if he knows his opponent can take e.p.). I will give it a few minutes, but stand nearby, to see if he can work it out for himself. If and when he claims a draw I will explain that it's not stalemate and ask them to think of any special rules for pawns, then if this isn't enough I show them their only legal move.

    Of course there are lots of undocumented rules for games between youngsters, for example, what to do if both sides are in check, or one has two light squared or two dark squared bishops.

    One interesting situation is when one player clearly doesn't know how to checkmate with king and rook or even king and queen against king - I always insist on the 50 move rule in those sort of cases, much to the annoyance of some of the other adult helpers (50 moves can feel like a long time if it's the last game of the round to finish), because I've found that a surprising number of players manage to work it out after 20 or so moves and because a lot of defenders rush their king to a nice safe corner.
  3. Subscriber Ponderable
    chemist
    22 Jan '14 12:08
    Thank you for that explanation.
  4. Standard member RBHILL
    Acts 13:48
    22 Jan '14 19:26
    In blitz if my opponent doesn't know what to do I just tell them and then send a link to a website explaining the rules.
  5. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    22 Jan '14 19:40
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    In blitz if my opponent doesn't know what to do I just tell them and then send a link to a website explaining the rules.
    And then the guy times out while reading the rules.
    Well played RB
  6. 22 Jan '14 21:03 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Ponderable
    Sometimes people here end with a "frozen game" since the only possible move is the en passant adn they fail to realize this.

    I don't think I've ever seen a position arising from an actual game where the only legal move was en passant
  7. Standard member RBHILL
    Acts 13:48
    22 Jan '14 23:14
    Originally posted by ChessPraxis
    And then the guy times out while reading the rules.
    Well played RB
    Obviously he would read it after the game.
  8. 22 Jan '14 23:41 / 1 edit
    Hi St 40.

    Game 6145235

    This was the final position. White has just played 35.c2-c4+


    White then posts in Thread 110369

    "I'm white and I believe my opponent is in checkmate, but for
    some reason it says opponents move....

    Have I missed something????"

    Someone told him about en passant (the only legal move) and all kinds
    of hell broke loose (see and read the thread).

    About to post a really funny e.p. checkmate in the next blog (about one hour from now.)
  9. 23 Jan '14 00:18
    Hi GP

    As I typed that I thought "I bet GP will find one...", you didn't disappoint..
  10. 23 Jan '14 00:20
    Blog done:

    http://www.redhotpawn.com/blog/blogread.php?blogpostid=158
  11. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    23 Jan '14 01:01
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Hi St 40.

    Game 6145235

    This was the final position. White has just played 35.c2-c4+

    [fen]7r/p6p/4Qp2/Pkp5/1pP5/1P3P2/1B1r3P/R6K b - C4 0 35[/fen]
    White then posts in Thread 110369

    "I'm white and I believe my opponent is in checkmate, but for
    some reason it says opponents move....

    Have I missed something????"

    Some ...[text shortened]... ead).

    About to post a really funny e.p. checkmate in the next blog (about one hour from now.)
    Ahh, those were the days. Wearing down over-emotional posters with incisive logic and poignant examples while effortlessly smacking down random hecklers.

    I have now knuckled under and don't care about people discussing games in progress anymore. So many people here are determined for this not to be a serious chess site that I've fallen in line.
  12. 23 Jan '14 01:36
    You were magnificent SG. You stuck to your guns and blasted away.
    Loved the way you kept composing those positions to prove a point.

    Don't let them wear you down. You used to enjoy a good forum stramash as much I do. (did)
    Remember all the rows I had with the computer guys.

    Cheer up. Show us the quickest mate with an e.p. capture.

    Or better still. I need a study (for the blog) to show the lads the true
    power of a Queen on an open board.
    Something like this, (very hastily done) but sounder with even more pieces
    getting captured. If you can get all 7 pieces (forced) that would be just perfect.

  13. Subscriber Ponderable
    chemist
    23 Jan '14 07:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by st40
    I don't think I've ever seen a position arising from an actual game where the only legal move was en passant
    My question arose after I posted in that thread:

    Thread 157463

    In fact I "only" told the players to look up special moves, but wasn't sure if that constituted outside help or not.

    OK. Not only should one check all checks but also all posts in the thread. Well done GP!
  14. 23 Jan '14 14:03
    Hi Ponders.

    I suppose it comes down how you interpretate TOS.

    Telling someone to look up the rules because they have not been playing long is IMO OK.
    You are not telling them what to play - just to do a re-read of the rules.

    If someone posts a position from a GIP and asks for advice then that is a clear no-no.

    If we were very strict on this rule then very little will be posted.
    A thread has been started about the QGA (not read it yet) but if opening
    ideas start appearing then is that against TOS?
    For all we know and the chances are in the positive, that there are a
    couple of dozens QGA's just starting with different players.
    We could be infact speaking about a dozen GIP's.

    Regarding the game posted in Thread 157463.
    (I won't give the game ID as it is still in progress.)

    An odd post that one because both players in the past have played in games where an e.p. featured.

    Their most recent finished games (2012) are Game 8964748 and Game 9598145
  15. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    04 Feb '14 15:50
    Originally posted by st40
    I don't think I've ever seen a position arising from an actual game where the only legal move was en passant
    Thread 157785
    It happens all the time. It seems to always happen to the people who don't know about en passant.