I am asking this question based on my replies to a thread created by 'sonship' called: The Jealousy of God. In my posts to that thread I had stated that God stated in the 1st Commandment that He wanted us to worship Him only.....otherwise He would be jealous.....something close to that.....I am paraphrasing.
I am not concerned at this point with Buddah, Mohammed, Rah, or any other gods that may compete with the God in the Bible.....I am focusing on Jesus.
Why do Christians believe that Jesus is God? That is my question. 'sonship' has suggested that I just confess my sins, and all will be fine and understood. Sins therefore are the problem. I disagree.
The Old Testament never says that God Himself will become human and die for us.....it is NOT there. I am okay with God deciding to send His son Jesus to die for us......and Jesus deserves His divine credit for that.....but, when did it go from that to Jesus being God? I am beginning to think that 1900 years ago or so, MAN decided to make Jesus as God, because Jesus NEVER said that He himself is God.
Again, the reason for this question is because if God wants our complete devotion and worship......and we seem to be giving ALL of it to Jesus....I want to know why? If we are wrong about the Trinity, then we are breaking the 1st Commandment by worshiping Jesus, and wearing the 'cross' around our necks in complete violation.
If you reply to this, please don't just tell me to 'believe it', or to just merely confess my sins, and all will be fine. If you believe that Jesus is God...........WHY?
Originally posted by moonbusExactly. Divegeester just wants us to believe simply because he does.....but, really, Jesus NEVER claims to be God. And as far as I am concerned, God should be pissed off that we worship Jesus as Him. I have asked for proof that Jesus is God, and I am certain that I will never get it. But......regarding the 1st Commandment, God should be jealous of his own son, because every Christian is treating Jesus as God.
Nowhere in the gospels , to my knowledge, does Jesus claim he is God. He calls God his Father and claims to be the Son of Man. Now isn't that interesting !
-Removed-Jesus never claimed to be God. End of story. Humans made that up. Why do you worship Jesus as God???? There is no evidence of that. You have NO scriptures to back up your claim.....and I am getting insulted at your arrogance. Do YOU really know who Jesus is?? If you do.....write a book and make millions.
Originally posted by chaney3Actually humans made up everything in the Bible including the bits about what Jesus said. End of story.
Jesus never claimed to be God. End of story. Humans made that up.
What were Paul's views on the matter? If you are going to claim that Paul could be wrong, then you should equally assume that the gospels could be wrong as they were written much later and by anonymous writers. If you assume the gospels are accurate then you should also take Paul's writings seriously.
Originally posted by twhiteheadAfter reading the book of numbers and first Chronicles and second Chronicles it's kind of hard to believe that it was all made up. With the history of all those people in the bloodline.
Actually humans made up everything in the Bible including the bits about what Jesus said. End of story.
What were Paul's views on the matter? If you are going to claim that Paul could be wrong, then you should equally assume that the gospels could be wrong as they were written much later and by anonymous writers. If you assume the gospels are accurate then you should also take Paul's writings seriously.
Originally posted by chaney3You are dealing with an irrational belief. You are absolutely correct, there is not a single iota of scripture where Jesus claims that he is God and like you say, someone simply made it up. The idea comes from the exegesis of scriptures which on the surface seem to support that idea, for example Isaiah 9:6 states that Jesus is an eternal father, so those who believe that Jesus is God use this to support their stance. The text of course does not say that Jesus is God, it says that he is an eternal father.
Jesus never claimed to be God. End of story. Humans made that up. Why do you worship Jesus as God???? There is no evidence of that. You have NO scriptures to back up your claim.....and I am getting insulted at your arrogance. Do YOU really know who Jesus is?? If you do.....write a book and make millions.
It is not entirely the fault of the deluded nominal Christian like divesgeester or sonship. They have been duped by thoroughly corrupt translation as well. For example John 1:1 where the English reads that 'the word was God'. When one actually examines the Greek text it becomes apparent that what the text is actually saying is that 'The word is divine', or has a Godly quality, we know this because the Greek uses a predicate noun.
No matter how much rationality you attempt to utilise or reason with people who believe that Jesus is God they very often dont want to change their perspective and so when you challenge them as you have done here you see the result, you get a completely irrational and emotive response, devoid in many cases of both substance and reason.
Originally posted by RBHILLOf course not every single fact in the Bible is made up. Jerusalem is, and was, a real place. Even some of the events/people in Numbers and Chronicles were real events/people. Nevertheless, the majority of the Bible is made up.
After reading the book of numbers and first Chronicles and second Chronicles it's kind of hard to believe that it was all made up. With the history of all those people in the bloodline.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI think your excuses is because of all that killing that went on. So what if the Jews eradicated whole nations who sacrificed babies to moloch! They had over 400 years to repent and turn from their wicked ways and they would've lived.
Of course not every single fact in the Bible is made up. Jerusalem is, and was, a real place. Even some of the events/people in Numbers and Chronicles were real events/people. Nevertheless, the majority of the Bible is made up.
Originally posted by RBHILLI made no excuses. I just stated the facts as I see them - and it had nothing to do with the Jews bad behavior.
I think your excuses is because of all that killing that went on.
So what if the Jews eradicated whole nations who sacrificed babies to moloch! They had over 400 years to repent and turn from their wicked ways and they would've lived.
Now that, is what we call 'excuses'.