Jesus vs. God

Originally posted by moonbus
The passages you cite do not support your claim, that Jesus himself claimed he was God. He described himself as the Son of Man, endowed by the Father with certain powers (e.g. to raise the dead) and authority (e.g. to fulfill prophecies). The attribution of godhead was made by others against him, in order to get him charged with blasphemy. The Romans would h ...[text shortened]... t of raising the dead) which the Father has bestowed upon him--not that he is the Father.

They do support it as far as I'm concerned. Understand that it is not satisfactory for you and have no problem with that. I don't accept your rebuttals as conclusive.

Originally posted by divegeester
They do support it as far as I'm concerned. Understand that it is not satisfactory for you and have no problem with that. I don't accept your rebuttals as conclusive.

I don't suppose my comments will cause you to doubt your faith, nor is that my intention. I am, however, trying to reply to the OP, and this cross-thread is not entirely irrelevant to that.

So, back to OP here: Jesus had made enemies amongst the recognized Jewish authorities, the Sadducees and the Pharisees, by preaching in the temples. According to Jewish law, one needed proper authorization to preach in the temples. The Sadducees and the Pharisees were the people schooled in the Jewish law, the official interpreters of that law, and therefore the adjudicators who was and who was not authorized to preach. That is the point of the passage I cited from John 2:18 and 2:19: the people wanted to know what Jesus's authority was, since it was obviously not the usual one (as interpreted by the Sadducees and the Pharisees). And he told them, 'by the powers vested in me....' It was other people who claimed he had claimed to be god because they had reason to believe that would lead to a charge of blasphemy and then to execution.

Originally posted by kevinlee123
Jesus is Jehovah
Jesus is God
There is one God, who is triune—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, co-existing and coinhering in three persons, or hypostases, distinct but never separate, from eternity to eternity

That settle it. Period 😏

Can you provide a single reference where Jesus claims that he is Jehovah? Or did you simply make it up?

Originally posted by chaney3
Jesus never claimed to be God. End of story. Humans made that up. Why do you worship Jesus as God???? There is no evidence of that. You have NO scriptures to back up your claim.....and I am getting insulted at your arrogance. Do YOU really know who Jesus is?? If you do.....write a book and make millions.

Christians believe in a meat eating God.

This means Christians believe in a animal slaughtering God.

Can you believe a God that slaughters animals and a God that then eats the flesh of those animals.

Christians believe this nonsense.

Is this enough to prove that Jesus is not God........................The All loving and All Merciful and the All Compassionate God of (slaughter houses and animal killing and meat eating.)

Originally posted by Dasa
Christians believe in a meat eating God.

This means Christians believe in a animal slaughtering God.

Can you believe a God that slaughters animals and a God that then eats the flesh of those animals.

Christians believe this nonsense.

Is this enough to prove that Jesus is not God........................The All loving and All Merciful and the All Compassionate God of (slaughter houses and animal killing and meat eating.)

I think you worry too much about "meat eating". Animals eat each other, we eat animals, it's no biggie to most people.

Originally posted by chaney3

Not having read the 50 or so contributions to this topic, I feel it is premature to jump in. But I think I should say something.

I am asking this question based on my replies to a thread created by 'sonship' called: The Jealousy of God. In my posts to that thread I had stated that God stated in the 1st Commandment that He wanted us to worship Him only.....otherwise He would be jealous.....something close to that.....I am paraphrasing.

I am not concerned at this point with Buddah, Mohammed, Rah, or any other gods that may compete with the God in the Bible.....I am focusing on Jesus.

Good. Focusing on the Lord Jesus is an excellent idea.

Why do Christians believe that Jesus is God? That is my question. 'sonship' has suggested that I just confess my sins, and all will be fine and understood. Sins therefore are the problem. I disagree.

Right here is where I should clarify. I believed that if a person has a doctrinal issue very often it is because they do not enjoy God intimately, personally, subjectively. So instead they are occupied in the mentality trying to figure out a number of things.

This does not mean we should not analyze biblical truths of doctrinal matters. My suggestions to you were go to what I thought might be the a distance from touching God inwardly to experience -

"the peace that surpassess every man's understanding" (Phil. 4:7)

There is a peace with God that is deeper than intellectual activity, in touching, tasting, God Himself. Now let me finish the quotation for a fuller picture -

"And the peace of God, which surpasses every man's understanding, will guard you hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus." (Phil 4.7)

i spoke to you about the removing of the main obstacle which alienates a person from enjoying this "peace of God, which surpasses [ every person's ] understanding.

I think that to touch this peace with God more and more convinces that to touch Jesus Christ is to touch God - period.
The toucher doesn't have to become conversant on intricate matters of theology, Christology, etc. She knows that the deep inner peace is God Himself. And this peace guards our hearts and our thoughts "in Christ Jesus".

Just says me? No also says the Apostle John in First John.
They handled the Word of life with their hands.
They beheld the Word of life with their eyes.
That is Jesus he is speaking of

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life. (1 John 1:1)

He is absolutely talking about the man Jesus. Right?
He is talking about the Word who was with God, and was God.
He is talking about the Word in whom there was life.
He is talking about the Word that became flesh (John 1:14).

Then he goes on.

(And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us.)

chaney3, the Word is the eternal life.
The eternal life is to be experienced by us subjectively.

It is not just that we "worship" God so correctly as an outside distance correct object. It is that we fellowship with the divine life of God that comes into us.

You know, fallen man's problem, is that he is "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) . That is not just "he doesn't know about God in objective correctness." It is not that he just doesn't have the correct doctrinal viewpoint. It is that God as life is distance from him. He is estranged from living in God as a realm. He is alienated from the life of God.

Jesus the Word of life is the life of God.
Jesus is the living Word of God.
Through the God/man Jesus Christ the alienation from the very life of God is healed and we through Jesus have fellowship with God and peace with God, rather God Himself as our peace.

"He [Christ] Himself is our peace ... " (Eph. 2:14).
And the peace of God surpassess every man's understanding, garrisoning, guarding, patrolling our thoughts and our heart in Christ Jesus.

Look what else John says there.

That which we have seen and heard we also report to you that you also may have fellowship with us, and indeed our felloswhip is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

And these thing we write that our joy may be full. (v.3,4)

I was concerned about the peace you experience and the joy you experience by having the eternal life flowing in your innermost spirit. Then there is little difficulty in realizing that to come to Christ the Word of life is to come to the life of God is to come to God.

John too, was concerned for the peace and joy of touching divine life in the Father and the Son. And he too spoke of the blood of Jesus removing the main obstacle for fellowship with God.

" If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, ..." (v.9)

The Old Testament never says that God Himself will become human and die for us.....it is NOT there. I am okay with God deciding to send His son Jesus to die for us......and Jesus deserves His divine credit for that.....but, when did it go from that to Jesus being God? I am beginning to think that 1900 years ago or so, MAN decided to make Jesus as God, because Jesus NEVER said that He himself is God.

How subject to God is "the life of God" ?

The Word of life is the Word of the life of God.
Sinful man is "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18)

How subjective to God is God's life?
It is God Himself.
The Christian life is therefore receive God as an additional life to be planted into our natural human life. God become Himself to us "the eternal life" .

"I am the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6) means that Jesus is the life of God. Therefore Jesus, the man Jesus, the resurrected, exalted and glorified man Jesus is Godman. He is God dispensed to us as eternal life. That is IF ... we will receive Him.

Your arguments that Christ did not claim to be God are wrong. And by claiming Christ is God we are not saying Christ is no a man. He is the mingling of God and man. And we Christians do worship Christ as God.

One reason why God said that he's the only one in Deuteronomy is so that Jesus might be crucified because if he said there was a triune God he would have not been crucified.

And also Moses told them to kill false prophets if he didn't do that then Jesus wouldn't have been crucified either.

Originally posted by divegeester
I think you worry too much about "meat eating". Animals eat each other, we eat animals, it's no biggie to most people.

That,s because most people are not sincere and they are attached to meat eating which means cruelty and killing animals.

Christians don't want to stop eating meat even if it offends Jesus and God.......(this automatically makes them dishonest..................(remember thou shalt not kill) and Its not optional.

Christians cannot keep most commandments, but they still believe they are going to their imagined heaven and this is because they have this magic potion called Grace.

They don't realize that if they eat meat they have no Grace and never will.

Originally posted by Dasa
That,s because most people are not sincere and they are attached to meat eating which means cruelty and killing animals.

Christians don't want to stop eating meat even if it offends Jesus and God.......(this automatically makes them dishonest..................(remember thou shalt not kill) and Its not optional.

Christians cannot keep most commandments, bu ...[text shortened]... ion called Grace.

They don't realize that if they eat meat they have no Grace and never will.

Yet you have no compunction about killing muslims. Does that mean it is a greater wrong to kill animals than it is to kill humans?

Originally posted by RBHILL
One reason why God said that he's the only one in Deuteronomy is so that Jesus might be crucified because if he said there was a triune God he would have not been crucified.

And also Moses told them to kill false prophets if he didn't do that then Jesus wouldn't have been crucified either.

Your comments are pure speculation and lack any scriptural veracity.

Originally posted by Dasa
That,s because most people are not sincere and they are attached to meat eating which means cruelty and killing animals.

Christians don't want to stop eating meat even if it offends Jesus and God.......(this automatically makes them dishonest..................(remember thou shalt not kill) and Its not optional.

Christians cannot keep most commandments, bu ...[text shortened]... ion called Grace.

They don't realize that if they eat meat they have no Grace and never will.

When a lion eats its prey, is the lion being "insincere" also?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Can you provide a single reference where Jesus claims that he is Jehovah? Or did you simply make it up?

Are you going to answer chaney3's question from the previous page or so?

Originally posted by divegeester
Are you going to answer chaney3's question from the previous page or so?

Bump for Robbie carrobie

Can you provide a single reference where Jesus claims that he is Jehovah? Or did you simply make it up?

We can provide far more support for Jesus saying He is Jehovah God become a man than you can for saying He was Michael the angel.

Originally posted by sonship

Can you provide a single reference where Jesus claims that he is Jehovah? Or did you simply make it up?

We can provide far more support for Jesus saying He is [b]Jehovah God become a man than you can for saying He was Michael the angel.[/b]

Excellent response.