05 Dec '06 22:27>
Check this:
Is Jesus Christ the only saviour:
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/index.html
Is Jesus Christ the only saviour:
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/index.html
Originally posted by ahosyneyWith so many proported "Messiahs" it is strange how the prophecies of the Old Testament only seems to concern itself with one.
Check this:
Is Jesus Christ the only saviour:
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/index.html
Originally posted by Bosse de NageIndeed. The Christian, however, believes that he is returning to fulfill the rest of those prophecies. My only point in saying what I did is to point out that the Bible points to ONE Messiah. What Islam attempts to do and, in fact, must do, is to try and dilute the person of Christ down into nothing more than a mere prophet because that is all they give him credit for as being. This, however, is problematic when he admittingly says he is THE Messhiah. He is not A Messiah or one of many, rather, he is THE Messhiah. The only way to feel comfortable with such a statement is to dilute the meaning of the term Messiah down as meaning the same as a prophet. There are many prophets in the Bible but only one Messiah. In fact, we are told that many will come after Christ has come declaring that they are the Messiah but to not recieve them. This is what is and has been happening as pointed out by the web site in question. I have one quesion for Islam if they claim Christ is a Messiah, if he is the Messiah, what is he the Messiah of? What did he do to attain the position of Messiah? What did he save us from? Why was he singled out as being referred to as the "anointed one"? In short, what was special about the Christ of the Bible that gives him such exclusivisity?
Even stranger that most Jews consider that those prophecies have yet to be fulfilled.
Originally posted by whodeyWhodey, as you can see, the story of Jesus Christ as a saviour is not the only one. So that make me belive it copied from those older stories.
Indeed. The Christian, however, believes that he is returning to fulfill the rest of those prophecies. My only point in saying what I did is to point out that the Bible points to ONE Messiah. What Islam attempts to do and, in fact, must do, is to try and dilute the person of Christ down into nothing more than a mere prophet because that is all they give hi blem then becomes how does one villify someone such as Christ who is universally seen as good?
Originally posted by ahosyneyMark 14:60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus saying, "Answer you nothing? What is it which these witnesses against you? But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high preist asked him, and said to him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed"? And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven" Then the high priest rent his clothes and said, "What need we any further witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy what do you think?" And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
Note: 1- Jesus Christ never claim he is Messiah, he claimed he is a prophet, and he said he is a prophet and man. And he never said he is Messiah.
Originally posted by whodeyThe first thing doesn't say much.
Mark 14:60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus saying, "Answer you nothing? What is it which these witnesses against you? But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high preist asked him, and said to him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed"? And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man sitting on the ...[text shortened]... is come, he will tell us of all things. Jesus said to her, I that speak to you am he."
Originally posted by ahosyneyI gave you John 4:25, not John 1:41. In John 4:25 Christ claims to be the Messiah by his own admission. How does one explain this away I wonder?
The first thing doesn't say much.
The second one go read this:
"John 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ."
So it simply say they found the Christ.
And you didn't answer my question about the Messia. The concept is not clear to me what exactly you mean.
What the attributes of the Messia according to the OT.
Originally posted by whodeyIn John 1:41 they interpreted Messiah to be Christ that is what I mean.
I gave you John 4:25, not John 1:41. In John 4:25 Christ claims to be the Messiah by his own admission. How does one explain this away I wonder?
Originally posted by ahosyneyIn Judism the Messiah is seen as the ONE who will liberate the Jewish people and who will bring ultimate peace on earth. Jews often refer to the Messiah as the one who will be the "liberator" of the Jewish people and not the "savior" of the Jewish people for obvious reasons. They do not refer to him as their savior in order to distance themselves from the theology of the Christian Jesus.
So it simply say they found the Christ.
And you didn't answer my question about the Messia. The concept is not clear to me what exactly you mean.
What the attributes of the Messia according to the OT.[/b]
Originally posted by whodeySo they belive he is a man and he is not a saviour. That is what they understand from their OT and they didn't claim he will be GOD.
In Judism the Messiah is seen as the ONE who will liberate the Jewish people and who will bring ultimate peace on earth. Jews often refer to the Messiah as the one who will be the "liberator" of the Jewish people and not the "savior" of the Jewish people for obvious reasons. They do not refer to him as their savior in order to distance themselves from the t ...[text shortened]... will never be destroyed."
So is the Son of Man to be worshipped if he is not God?
Originally posted by ahosyneyIt is apparent to me that Daniel sees the Son of Man as God. Otherwise why does eveyone worship him? Is it not written that we are to only worship the Lord our God and only serve him? It is also apparent to me that they viewed Christ as blashpeming by making himself out to be the Messiah as I pointed out in Mark 14:60. Therefore what the Jews believe today is of little consequence to me. They can either believe there religious texts, or create new ones.
So they belive he is a man and he is not a saviour. That is what they understand from their OT and they didn't claim he will be GOD.
How come then you as Christians understand that from the OT?