07 Jan 08
I often seem to get confronted with a scenario similar to the following in the four knights defense (symmetrical variation), being a weaker player and playing weaker players at club level:
With white to move, what are the real options in this position? Does the undeveloped bishop belong on e3 after 7. Qe2, or is a pin on the knight on f6 better? And when (if at all) is it safe to occupy the d5 square with the knight?
07 Jan 08
A producive idea for white is redevelopment of the Knight on c3 to g3 via e2.
This has three good points.
a)It allows white to play c3 and then e4 taking some space in the centre - while also supporting e4
b)If black tries Bf4 you can play h3 and then Ng3 which removes the pin without having to play g4 and weaken the kingside pawns.
c)The knight can go to f5 at a later point in time, and put pressure on the enemy king.
07 Jan 08
Originally posted by TyrannosauruschexIf Ne2 Bg4 what next ? Nd2 ? I also like the idea of N going to g3 but how do you handle the annoying pin ?
A producive idea for white is redevelopment of the Knight on c3 to g3 via e2.
This has three good points.
a)It allows white to play c3 and then e4 taking some space in the centre - while also supporting e4
b)If black tries Bf4 you can play h3 and then Ng3 which removes the pin without having to play g4 and weaken the kingside pawns.
c)The knight can go to f5 at a later point in time, and put pressure on the enemy king.
07 Jan 08
Originally posted by Tyrannosauruschexwould this idea (Ne2) not be better only after playing h3 first? If this is done immediately, then black does Bg4 anyway?
A producive idea for white is redevelopment of the Knight on c3 to g3 via e2.
This has three good points.
a)It allows white to play c3 and then e4 taking some space in the centre - while also supporting e4
b)If black tries Bf4 you can play h3 and then Ng3 which removes the pin without having to play g4 and weaken the kingside pawns.
c)The knight can go to f5 at a later point in time, and put pressure on the enemy king.
08 Jan 08
1 edit
Originally posted by rijnsburgerCan you show the move order to how you got to this position please.
I often seem to get confronted with a scenario similar to the following in the four knights defense (symmetrical variation), being a weaker player and playing weaker players at club level:
[fen]r1bq1rk1/ppp2ppp/2np1n2/2b1p3/2B1P3/2NP1N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 0 7[/fen]
With white to move, what are the real options in this position? Does the undevel ...[text shortened]... he knight on f6 better? And when (if at all) is it safe to occupy the d5 square with the knight?
As I am sure you have good alternatives before this position is reached
For example 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bc4 Black's best move here is simply 4...Nxe4!
09 Jan 08
Originally posted by najdorfslayerI agree with this statement. I don't think anyone willingly goes into the guicco pianissimo short of a few people still learning the game who blindly adhere to basic opening principals. Personally after e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 I prefer to play either the "duffers move" Ng5 or 0-0 followed by c3, d3, Nbd2 and eventually d4.
Can you show the move order to how you got to this position please.
As I am sure you have good alternatives before this position is reached
For example 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bc4 Black's best move here is simply 4...Nxe4!
09 Jan 08
3 edits
Originally posted by zebanoMy preferred 1. e4 e5 opening is the Vienna Gambit, but it sometimes leads to this depending on black's move order and my own preference at the time (ie: after 1.e4 e5 2. Nc3 Bc5 3. Bc4 (I don't like 3. f4 in this position) d6 4. d3 Nf6 5. Nf3 Nc6 and our thematic quiet Italian position has been reached with no center fork trick playable.
I agree with this statement. I don't think anyone willingly goes into the guicco pianissimo short of a few people still learning the game who blindly adhere to basic opening principals. Personally after e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 I prefer to play either the "duffers move" Ng5 or 0-0 followed by c3, d3, Nbd2 and eventually d4.
Personally I'm fine with this position. Yes its very quiet but a little patience and cautious buildup can sometimes reap rewards. Having the advantage of the first move and its slight initiative gives white some tangible advantage. Not something I'd aim for from move one, but as a fallback when I can't get my preferred opening in, its fine.
And having been playing chess for 25 years I'm hardly some beginner, although this setup is common among beginners who are learning proper development but haven't yet made the leap to more dynamic openings. But that doesn't make the opening bad. Merely quiet, with only slight advantage that requires patience to nurture.