Originally posted by Fat Ladyit's probably quite beneficial to learn it well though, as it forces you to improve your sight for piece coordination.
Not only have I never had this ending myself, but I've only ever seen it in real life once. It's worth learning once you get to a high level, but until then rook and pawn endings will earn you more points per hour spent studying!
Does anyone have any suggestions for mates or strategies for mates with the following combinations:
king + knight OR bishop versus king + rook
king + knight OR bishop versus king + queen
or any other scenario in which both sides have pieces, but only one side has sufficient mating material?
For curiosity and for possible future knowledge, I would be very interested in any suggestions or strategies.
Originally posted by lauseyI can blitz KNB now in under 10s a move against CM, yay! 🙂 and probably faster against a real human who would take some time for his moves as well...
I can blitz and mate with the first 3 against chessmaster. I can also blitz a P+K vs K ending (as long as possible to mate with the position, of course, another thread perhaps? 😉 ). Learning the 2B+K vs K at the moment. 🙂
Originally posted by wittywonkaAssuming white is the stronger side K + R v K + N/B is drawn, except in a handful of cases where white can immediately take the minor piece. K + Q v K + B/N is won for white unless black can take the queen immediately. The only way black can win (that I can think of) is like this:
Does anyone have any suggestions for mates or strategies for mates with the following combinations:
king + knight OR bishop versus king + rook
king + knight OR bishop versus king + queen
or any other scenario in which both sides have pieces, but only one side has sufficient mating material?
For curiosity and for possible future knowledge, I would be very interested in any suggestions or strategies.
Originally posted by DeepThought"Like" means that there are eight such possibilities.
Assuming white is the stronger side K + R v K + N/B is drawn, except in a handful of cases where white can immediately take the minor piece. K + Q v K + B/N is won for white unless black can take the queen immediately. The only way black can win (that I can think of) is like this:
[fen]K1k5/R7/1n6/8/8/8/8/8[/fen]
Originally posted by gaychessplayerI agree than K & P 9up) endings are much more likely than K B & N vs K and that time spent learning these is much better invested but the method of forcing the king into the correct corner may be of use in other circumstances and the strategy and tactics involved in learning how to mate with a B & N does come into use in all aspects of chess.
A thorough understanding of the K+B+N vs. K checkmate might net you an extra half-point over a twenty-five year tournament career.
Then again, you might lose several points by failing to win or draw rook endings that you could have been studying instead of the K+B+N vs. K checkmate.
I will try and post some elementary ideas on K & P endings but these are far more varied and complex although some basic types of position are best learnt.
Originally posted by wittywonkaI could post these but they are much more complex and a win is not always certain.
Does anyone have any suggestions for mates or strategies for mates with the following combinations:
king + knight OR bishop versus king + rook
king + knight OR bishop versus king + queen
or any other scenario in which both sides have pieces, but only one side has sufficient mating material?
For curiosity and for possible future knowledge, I would be very interested in any suggestions or strategies.
A queen will always win easily against a lone N or B.
A queen should always win against a N & B.
Provided the weaker side can coordinate his pieces correctly 2Bs or 2Ns should always draw against the lone Q.
If there is enough interest I can post these endings up.
Originally posted by Dragon FireEveryone says that but Q v N is hard, can you show an example of how to do it?
A queen will always win easily against a lone N or B.
Q v B is easy though, just proceed as if you're mating with a queen against king but keep your king and queen on the opposite colour squares to your opponent's bishop.
1 edit
Originally posted by ilywrinAs far as I am aware a fortress can be built with 2B or 2N but not with a B & N and it is only very exceptional positions where the weaker side might draw. Are you able to show a position and how to draw such an ending because I am not and it would be useful to see the technique in a separate thread.
Except when the weaker side can build a fortress.
Originally posted by SchumiSee Thread 57743
Everyone says that but Q v N is hard, can you show an example of how to do it?
Q v B is easy though, just proceed as if you're mating with a queen against king but keep your king and queen on the opposite colour squares to your opponent's bishop.
Originally posted by Dragon FireYes, only a few exceptions exist. Here is one (found by M.Karstedt):
As far as I am aware a fortress can be built with 2B or 2N but not with a B & N and it is only very exceptional positions where the weaker side might draw. Are you able to show a position and how to draw such an ending because I am not and it would be useful to see the technique in a separate thread.
Black only needs to play Bh8 and Bg7 (or Kh7 and Kg8) and White cannot improve his position. The knight prevents the White king from coming closer through the light squares and the bishop secures the dark providing a safe haven for the Black king.