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  1. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Jan '13 03:04 / 3 edits
    Exuma posted this mate in 6 problem. Since you are the resident Chess Guru, can you solve it?

    I got this far with it. So what can Black do to force a checkmate in six moves?



    Perhaps this is a better ides:



    Or maybe...

  2. 25 Jan '13 09:47
    As someone mentioned before in the other thread, bring the other knight into game. 1. .... Nc6.
  3. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Jan '13 10:32 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Mephisto2
    As someone mentioned before in the other thread, bring the other knight into game. 1. .... Nc6.
    I considered that, but a3 seems to be an adequate reply

  4. 25 Jan '13 11:39
    1. ... Nc6 2.a3 Nd4+ really does it. Check it out yourself.
  5. 25 Jan '13 14:53
    RJ you are the guy with the 2200 grade ( ) I am only an 1800 player.

    For someone who solves SG's difficult set mates without any hassle usually the
    first to post a solution I was surprised you were not first in with the solution.

    Then I read Exuma's 2nd post.

    "Hahahaha. OK this is impossible."

    So it would appear it is not a sound mate in 6 and that is why your computer
    has failed to find it and you are posting variations all over the place like
    a frustrated fish.

    Fritz has failed to find it, your next usual step when trolling a post is to cut and
    paste something from WIKI but that is no help here, so you do the next bext thing
    and wake me up.

    So now I have been dragged into this position I suppose I had better
    try and sort it out. (me being the RHP Guru and all.)

    In the original post we see Exuma has also posted:
    "Hint - you must sac the rook. "

    Must I? I don't like the word 'must' in problems.
    I'm now thinking for there to be a mate in 6 White MUST take the Rook
    even if it is not the best move.

    So Black is going to make a move and White no matter what Black plays
    will take the d3 Rook.


    I saw Nc6 punted so 1...Nc6. 2.Kxd3

    Tom Tom said this does work because the King can get away to c2.

    But 2...Nxb4+


    The square c2 is covered.

    3.Ke2 Qh5+ 4.Ke1 Nd3 mate.


    But that is not mate in 6 I hear you howl.

    Yes it is.

    You have to try and interpretate what Exuma perhaps means.

    The key move is 1....Nc6
    Then after that counting both moves it is a mate in 6.

    2. Kxd3 Nxb4+ 3. Ke2 Qh5+ 4. Ke1 Nd3 mate.

    That is 3 moves for White and three moves for Black (3 + 3 = 6)

    Of course it is not correct in pure problem terminology, it should be
    Black to play and mate in four, the King must take on d3.

    But Exuma is a good lad, I won't hold that against him.

    Greenpawn has spoken. Let it be so.
  6. 25 Jan '13 17:18
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    RJ you are the guy with the 2200 grade ( ) I am only an 1800 player.

    For someone who solves SG's difficult set mates without any hassle usually the
    first to post a solution I was surprised you were not first in with the solution.

    Then I read Exuma's 2nd post.

    "Hahahaha. OK this is impossible."

    So it would appear it is not a sound mate in ...[text shortened]... a good lad, I won't hold that against him.

    Greenpawn has spoken. Let it be so.
    I thought you had your positions wrong because I was thinking "surely it is Nc2#", but then realised there are two solutions to your line.
    Good work
  7. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Jan '13 17:42 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    RJ you are the guy with the 2200 grade ( ) I am only an 1800 player.

    For someone who solves SG's difficult set mates without any hassle usually the
    first to post a solution I was surprised you were not first in with the solution.

    Then I read Exuma's 2nd post.

    "Hahahaha. OK this is impossible."

    So it would appear it is not a sound mate in a good lad, I won't hold that against him.

    Greenpawn has spoken. Let it be so.
    Correction Chess Guru, a problem mate in 6, means you must force a mate in 6 moves, no matter what the reply.

    Exuma was only giving a hint to the solution. He wrote, "Hint - You must sac the rook." Well, we did that in our solution on Exuma's thread where Black takes the rook. I did that with out use of a computer program, unlike what you apparently did by using Fritz by you own admission. You told me that I am free to post as long as I keep chess engine analysis out, but apparently that rule does not apply to yourself.

    I did not take Exuma's comment in the same manner as you did. I thought he was posting a true mate in 6 problem and that it was so difficult to him that he descrbed it as an impossible problem and not meaning it could not be done.

    I got a little help from another poster, but we came up with one solution that was a mate in 6 only if he takes the sacrificed rook. Now I was looking for a solution when he decided not to take. That is the only reason I asked for your help, because I could not find all the other solutions that stood up to all replies by White.

    Exuma has not yet said that the solution I posted was correct and if there is more to it or not. He has not said that this is not a true mate in 6 problem. If you are correct, then Exuma was misleading by posting his problem as a mate in 6 without saying that the problem works only if White takes the sacrificed rook. In all other problems that involve the sacrifice of a piece the problems still work if the sacrifice is refused.

    Exuma said. "you must sac the rook", which I did. However, that should not mean the opponent must take it.
  8. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Jan '13 17:53
    This was our solution from the other thread if White takes the sacrificed rook.

  9. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Jan '13 19:31
    If White replies Kc2 instead of taking the Knight in the above solution, then that variations appears busted, also.

  10. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Jan '13 19:46 / 3 edits
    So is the trick solution that greenpawn34 gives below what you meant?



    I am making no more efforts on solving this puzzle until I get clarification from Exuma as to what the heck he means.
  11. 25 Jan '13 20:56
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    RJ you are the guy with the 2200 grade ( ) I am only an 1800 player.

    For someone who solves SG's difficult set mates without any hassle usually the
    first to post a solution I was surprised you were not first in with the solution.

    Then I read Exuma's 2nd post.

    "Hahahaha. OK this is impossible."

    So it would appear it is not a sound mate in ...[text shortened]... a good lad, I won't hold that against him.

    Greenpawn has spoken. Let it be so.
    Just to clarify I said that ...Nc6 doesn't work when white has time to play Kc2 before ...Nb4+ and that I would probably play 1...Nc6 without too much calculation because it is easy to see that the rook is taboo.

    Its not a big deal but I think the Kc2 escape is crucial in some variations so I figure it is worth pointing out.
  12. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Jan '13 23:10 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Just to clarify I said that ...Nc6 doesn't work when white has time to play Kc2 before ...Nb4+ and that I would probably play 1...Nc6 without too much calculation because it is easy to see that the rook is taboo.

    Its not a big deal but I think the Kc2 escape is crucial in some variations so I figure it is worth pointing out.
    I have already shown that after 1...Nc6 2.a3 stops the mate in 6 and it also provides a escape square for the rook in the event of exf4.

    So I still prefer the forcing move 1...Qg2 because if White plays like most normal people, he would take the free pieces which leads to a mate. If for some reason he choices to take the rook, but not the knight by retreating his king to c2 then he is goiing to lose his remaining pieces and I would have an easy win without even getting the other knight and rook into the game. The same is true if he immediately retreats his king to e1.
  13. 25 Jan '13 23:25 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I have already shown that after 1...Nc6 2.a3 stops the mate in 6 and it also provides a escape square for the rook in the event of exf4.

    So I still prefer the forcing move 1...Qg2 because if White plays like most normal people, he would take the free pieces which leads to a mate. If for some reason he choices to take the rook, but not the knight by retre ...[text shortened]... ther knight and rook into the game. The same is true if he immediately retreats his king to e1.
    Not so, 1...Nc6 2.a3 Nd4+ 3.Kxd3 Nf2+ 4.Kc3 Nd1+ 5.Kd3 e4#
  14. 25 Jan '13 23:39 / 10 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    So is the trick solution that greenpawn34 gives below what you meant?

    [pgn]
    [FEN "rn4k1/ppp2pbp/6p1/4p3/1PP1nP2/3rP3/P2PK3/RN3N1q b - - 0 1"]
    1. Nc6 Kxd3 {because your clue means White MUST take the rook sac} 2. Nxb4+ Ke2 3. Qh5+ Ke1 4. Nd3+ {This is checkmate in 6 moves because you are doing some funny counting with 4 moves for Black plus 3 moves for W ...[text shortened]... s on solving this puzzle until I get clarification from Exuma as to what the heck he means.





    SOLV'D
  15. 26 Jan '13 00:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    [pgn]
    [FEN "rn4k1/ppp2pbp/6p1/4p3/1PP1nP2/3rP3/P2PK3/RN3N1q b - - 0 1"]
    1. Nc6 a3 2. Nd4+ Kxd3 3. Nf2+ Kc3 4. Nd1+ Kd3 5. e4#[/pgn]

    [pgn]
    [FEN "rn4k1/ppp2pbp/6p1/4p3/1PP1nP2/3rP3/P2PK3/RN3N1q b - - 0 1"]
    1. Nc6 a3 2. Nd4+ exd4 3. Qf3+ Ke1 4. Nf2 Nc3 5. Rxd2 Nxd2 6. Nd3[/pgn]


    SOLV'D


    Dangit