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  1. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    10 Dec '09 15:06
    Is it just me, or is Carlson defeating the top GM's in the World without an opening repertoire? Don't get me wrong, Carlson has deployed many openings over the years with great success. He has obviously studied this phase of the game but recently he seems to have thrown away the book to a certain extent. Take his recent game against Kramnik in London for example...



    White makes no real effort to gain an advantage in the opening. his is not the first time i have noticed this with his game. He used the same aproach at the last two Surper GM tournaments. What is he playing at? Is he saving his best lines for the next World championship cycle?

    More to the point, what does this say about his strength? In the above game, white has zero advantage after 12 moves (according to an engine that is). It amazes me that at 18(!!) he displays such an immense confidence in his middle/end game technique. 'Normally' these phases lend themselves to experience. When i look at his play i find myself thinking of Capablanca and Petrosian far more than i think of Kasparov (wit his trade mark complications) or say Fischer/Tal. I think we're seeing the rise of a new aproach to chess in general. How can it be that a player can enter so many equal positions yet score so many wins?? As far as i can see, Anand/Topalov is almost irrelevant, this kid is going to beat the winner and hog the limelight for a decade at least!
  2. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    10 Dec '09 16:06
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    Is it just me, or is Carlson defeating the top GM's in the World without an opening repertoire? Don't get me wrong, Carlson has deployed many openings over the years with great success. He has obviously studied this phase of the game but recently he seems to have thrown away the book to a certain extent. Take his recent game against Kramnik in London for ...[text shortened]... relevant, this kid is going to beat the winner and hog the limelight for a decade at least!
    yeah, I noticed that in his last tournament as well, but thought it might also have been because of the fever. no fever anymore.

    still, I have a feeling kasparov is at least in some degree behind this, even though his openings were so strong. because it's not like carlsen was some kind of clay for kasparov to mold, but instead a strong player in his own right, with his own ideas of what's his style and what works for him. and I'm sure kasparov has been able to strengthen that confidence, which coming from the greatest player of all time will have a huge effect.
  3. 10 Dec '09 16:38
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    Is it just me, or is Carlson defeating the top GM's in the World without an opening repertoire? Don't get me wrong, Carlson has deployed many openings over the years with great success. He has obviously studied this phase of the game but recently he seems to have thrown away the book to a certain extent. Take his recent game against Kramnik in London for ...[text shortened]... relevant, this kid is going to beat the winner and hog the limelight for a decade at least!
    Computers evaluate the english opening as equal. In the English opening, the advantage of the first move is based on (the knowledge of) very long term nuances and considerations and it's impossible for computers to see that.

    And Carlsen does follow theory, but like Nakamura he switches around so opponents can't prepare well against him... and at World class level, preparation is pretty much everything. (at that level) If you anticipate properly and prepare accordingly, you got at least a pretty much guaranteed draw.. and that's what's going on most of the time. Trust me, Carlsen (and the other players at that level, spends probably 90% of his time on openings (theirs and their opponent's) and the nuances in the games they bring.
  4. 10 Dec '09 18:22
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    How can it be that a player can enter so many equal positions yet score so many wins??
    Maybe you're underestimating the complexity of chess. An equal position can be a long way away from a drawn game, even for top GMs. Also, sometimes the term "equal" can be subjective in this context.
  5. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    10 Dec '09 18:31
    Having both Kasparov's analysis/novelties and his own seperate strengths makes Carlsen extremely difficult to play right now. Most impressive to me is that Carlsen beat Kramnik at his own strength, positional play.
  6. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    10 Dec '09 20:09
    Players at Carlsen's level don't follow theory, they create it. If Carlsen plays it, it is current theory.


    In the game in question, Carlsen maintained the initiative (mostly) and created imbalances. That's the purpose of the opening--watch and learn.
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Gonzalo de Córdoba
    10 Dec '09 20:24 / 1 edit
    All this time I thought Carlson was black.

    Ahh, wrong Carlson.

    http://main.uschess.org/content/view/6430/354/
  8. Standard member JonathanB of London
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    11 Dec '09 00:03
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    Is it just me, or is Carlson defeating the top GM's in the World without an opening repertoire? ... In the above game, white has zero advantage after 12 moves (according to an engine that is).
    Well with due respect to you and that engine I'd say if Carlsen and Kasparov think it was the right opening for that particularly game then it probably was.
  9. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    11 Dec '09 00:13
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    Is it just me, or is Carlson defeating the top GM's in the World without an opening repertoire? Don't get me wrong, Carlson has deployed many openings over the years with great success. He has obviously studied this phase of the game but recently he seems to have thrown away the book to a certain extent. Take his recent game against Kramnik in London for ...[text shortened]... relevant, this kid is going to beat the winner and hog the limelight for a decade at least!
    I think you are correct about his talent. I'm not sure about Carlson's motives. It may be that he is talented enough to simply develop his pieces and save his concentration for the middle and endgame.
  10. 11 Dec '09 04:15
    the name is CARLSEN dudes
  11. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    11 Dec '09 04:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by heinzkat
    the name is CARLSooooN dudes
    yeah, and some say Kasparov's name is spelt Wienstien
  12. 11 Dec '09 14:10
    Originally posted by irontigran
    yeah, and some say Kasparov's name is spelt Wienstien
    What is happening in The London Chess Championships?
  13. 11 Dec '09 14:11
    Originally posted by irontigran
    yeah, and some say Kasparov's name is spelt Wienstien
    WEINSTEIN
  14. 11 Dec '09 14:24
    Whats happeing in the lONodn so far?
  15. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    11 Dec '09 16:57
    Originally posted by Chandradi
    What is happening in The London Chess Championships?
    nothing. no games today.