cheap draw

The moves are correct (not 1. Kf1? h3 and Black wins), but please explain the part about 'capturing the a-pawn'!?

Originally posted by Mad Rook
This one looks fun. I'm guessing 1.Ke2, then 2.Kf3. Then White can either capture the a-pawn, or if Black protects the a-pawn with the bishop, then White can maneuver his king to the h1 square, securing the draw.

Ooh, I was trying to avoid going through all of the variations, because it seemed like there were too many of them. But I'l try a few.

If 1.Ke2 h3 2.Kf3 h2, then 3.Kg2, and if 3...h1=Q, then 4.Kxh1. And if 3...Bg1, then 4.Kh1, and the white king can just shuffle from h1 to g2 and back.

If 1.Ke2 Bc5 (or Bd4), then 2.Kf3 Bd4 (or Bc5) 3.Kg4 Bf2 4.Kh3, and the white king can make it to the h1 square.

If 1.Ke2 Ke5 2.Kf3 Kf5, then 3.Kg2 and the white king can make it to the h1 square again.

Did I miss any important variations?

Originally posted by thesonofsaul
You're right. I replied too fast. Black cannot win either way.

Of course black can win, with some major blunders... 😛

Originally posted by range blasts
Of course black can win, with some major blunders...

Well, we were assuming best play by White.

Originally posted by Mad Rook
Ooh, I was trying to avoid going through all of the variations, because it seemed like there were too many of them. But I'l try a few.

If 1.Ke2 h3 2.Kf3 h2, then 3.Kg2, and if 3...h1=Q, then 4.Kxh1. And if 3...Bg1, then 4.Kh1, and the white king can just shuffle from h1 to g2 and back.

If 1.Ke2 Bc5 (or Bd4), then 2.Kf3 Bd4 (or Bc5) 3.Kg4 Bf2 4.Kh3, an ...[text shortened]... and the white king can make it to the h1 square again.

Did I miss any important variations?

No [you didn't miss anything important], after re-reading your previous post, I understand now you were aiming at the h-pawn, not the a-pawn.

Originally posted by Mad Rook
Well, we were assuming best play by White.

of course, I was just making sure all variations were in play 😉!

Originally posted by Mad Rook
If 1.Ke2 h3 2.Kf3 h2, then 3.Kg2, and if 3...h1=Q, then 4.Kxh1. And if 3...Bg1, then 4.Kh1, and the white king can just shuffle from h1 to g2 and back.

And in the case where Black has a pawn on h2 and a bishop on g1, and White is shuffling his king between h1 and g2, the variations are interesting. I think regardless of what Black does, White has a draw. If the black king stays near white's a and b-pawns to prevent them from promoting, the white king will just shuffle between h1 and g2 forever. And if the black king tries to approach its h-pawn, white can simply advance his a and b-pawns to force Black to move his bishop, thereby allowing the white king to capture Black's h-pawn. (edit - dang, I had to correct another typo.)

Even more interesting is that White could even throw away both of his pawns without capturing Black's h-pawn, and I think he would still have a draw, because the black king would force stalemate if he got too close to the h1 corner.

Originally posted by heinzkat
No [you didn't miss anything important], after re-reading your previous post, I understand now you were aiming at the h-pawn, not the a-pawn.

Oh, sorry, I didn't even realize that I typed a-pawn instead of h-pawn. My bad. 😳

Originally posted by Mad Rook
Even more interesting is that White could even throw away both of his pawns without capturing Black's h-pawn, and I think he would still have a draw, because the black king would force stalemate if he got too close to the h1 corner.

That's the whole idea of these diagrams/this thread. Black has the wrong Bishop.

Originally posted by clandarkfire
Today I played in a tournament, and after a two and a half hour game (against some one rated 300 points higher than me), the following position uccured. I was not able to win, especially with two minutes left. Is it possible for black to win? [fen]7K/8/7p/3b2k/8/8/8/8[/fen]

This is a book draw, probably the most lopsided draw materially that exists. It only works when the pawn is on the a or h file and only when the bishop is not the color of the corner "queening" square.

If you've ever read "searching for Bobby Fischer," when Josh Waitzkin draws the final game to become US children's champion against his arch nemesis, he was behind in material and in position, but used this principal in creating the draw (the game didn't turn out like this, but he was only able to draw because his opponent's bishop was the opposite color of a flank pawn that was going to become a passed pawn eventually).

Josh analyzes the game thoroughly and makes a note of this endgame position as the key to the game in his "Art of Learning" series on Chessmaster GM edition.

Originally posted by sh76
This is a book draw, probably the most lopsided draw materially that exists...

Actually, the most lopsided draw materially is King & two Knights versus a lone King. A great injustice indeed! 🙂

This reminds me of a high school game that ended up with a king and bishop vs. king position. the kid with the bishop offered a draw, but the kid without the bishop declined! the kid with the bishop tried to claim draw but the other kid did not accept it. after a HALF HOUR of moving back and forth the kid without the bishop finally claimjed a draw on insufficient material. he delayed the draw just because the other kid didn't know how to properly claim the draw. i don't know what this has to do with anything, just a funny story about a drawn chess game 😵

Originally posted by heinzkat
i.e. I played this in a game three years ago:

[fen]8/1pN5/p1b5/P1k5/8/8/5K2/8 w - -[/fen]

1. Nxa6+!?

Is this enough for a draw?

This seems like a better question for tablebases than human players, but I'd wager that White can hold the draw after 1...bxa6 2.Ke3 Kc4 3.Kd2 Be4 4.Kc1 Kb3, keeping wK out of the corner, but the minute bK goes for the a5 pawn, wK sneaks back into the corner. The only real way White could lose is if the bK and bB could somehow force him up into the a8 corner, followed by ...KxP. It doesn't look like a K and B can force that, though.

Originally posted by UserChevy
This reminds me of a high school game that ended up with a king and bishop vs. king position. the kid with the bishop offered a draw, but the kid without the bishop declined! the kid with the bishop tried to claim draw but the other kid did not accept it. after a HALF HOUR of moving back and forth the kid without the bishop finally claimjed a draw on insuf ...[text shortened]... i don't know what this has to do with anything, just a funny story about a drawn chess game 😵

🙂

Originally posted by sh76
This is a book draw, probably the most lopsided draw materially that exists.

black to move

this is a pretty lopsided draw too.