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  1. Standard member ivan2908
    SelfProclaimedTitler
    22 Aug '08 08:17 / 1 edit
    After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nc6 8.Qd2 0-0 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 you play 10...Rb8

    Anyone plays that variation ? Do you have some games with it ?
  2. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    22 Aug '08 12:35
    I've never bothered to learn this variation because I always thought playing the normal ...Ne5, ...Rc8 variation would reward the better prepared and was better, but I think that the main line goes something like 11. Bb3 Na5 12. Bh6 b5! but that's about all I got.

    I was able to dig up some high level games though:

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1252838

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1399540

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1456504

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1489060

    Enjoy. The vast majority of Dragon games now start: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 Nc6 8. Qd2 0-0 9. Bc4 Bd7 10. 0-0-0 Ne5 11. Bb3 Rc8 12. Kb1!

    Now black can choose from 12...a6!? (The most popular move recently) 12...Re8, or 12...Nc4. After 12...Nc4 13. Bxc4 Rxc4 14. g4!, the only line I think may hold up to scrutiny or be worth trying is 14...b5 15. b3! (The move that's thought to put this line out of commission) 15...b4!?, when 16. bxc4 bxc3 17. Qxc3 Qc7! is critical, and very unclear.
  3. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    22 Aug '08 15:05
    Originally posted by ivan2908
    After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nc6 8.Qd2 0-0 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 you play 10...Rb8

    Anyone plays that variation ? Do you have some games with it ?
    Tebb and others contribute a couple of nice lines on the Chinese Dragon in this thread.
    Thread 88326

    D
  4. 22 Aug '08 17:11
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    I've never bothered to learn this variation because I always thought playing the normal ...Ne5, ...Rc8 variation would reward the better prepared and was better, but I think that the main line goes something like 11. Bb3 Na5 12. Bh6 b5! but that's about all I got.

    I was able to dig up some high level games though:

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess ...[text shortened]... out of commission) 15...b4!?, when 16. bxc4 bxc3 17. Qxc3 Qc7! is critical, and very unclear.
    Cheers!~TONY~!
    15...b4!? is MY move! Little claim to fame as I was credited with playing it first it in New in Chess yearbook 85.

    I discovered it after being roundly thumped in this line by GM Jonathan Rowson a few years earlier - i was looking for a practical OTB idea and 15...b4 was it.

    It doesn't really stand up to close computer scrutiny i believe, but I'd certainly play it against the right opponent at the right time.
  5. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    22 Aug '08 17:16
    Originally posted by streetfighter
    Cheers!~TONY~!
    15...b4!? is MY move! Little claim to fame as I was credited with playing it first it in New in Chess yearbook 85.

    I discovered it after being roundly thumped in this line by GM Jonathan Rowson a few years earlier - i was looking for a practical OTB idea and 15...b4 was it.

    It doesn't really stand up to close computer scrutiny i believe, but I'd certainly play it against the right opponent at the right time.
    who are you again?
  6. 22 Aug '08 17:30 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by irontigran
    who are you again?
    Check out Greenpawn 34's link

    http://www.chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandlerarticle.php?ChandID=279

    Bump : )
  7. 22 Aug '08 17:49 / 1 edit
    As white I once got smashed horribly by it by quite a strong junior player (but managed to swindle a draw) and took it up as black myself. It tends to be a total killer against unprepared whities but the ones who are a bit more brave can often take the b pawn and play stuff like Bb3 which kills the attack off quite a bit.

    If anybody wants to spend the time hunting through my older games - I started playing it around 2006 and am pretty certain I have had a few games on this very site.
  8. 22 Aug '08 18:20
    Ooops, I shouldnt have drawn attention to that game... Still it does help prove my point of what a resilliant move Bb3 is.
  9. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    22 Aug '08 20:55
    Originally posted by streetfighter
    Cheers!~TONY~!
    15...b4!? is MY move! Little claim to fame as I was credited with playing it first it in New in Chess yearbook 85.

    I discovered it after being roundly thumped in this line by GM Jonathan Rowson a few years earlier - i was looking for a practical OTB idea and 15...b4 was it.

    It doesn't really stand up to close computer scrutiny i believe, but I'd certainly play it against the right opponent at the right time.
    I've seen the Yearbook 85 article, but wasn't too impressed with the coverage (No offense to the move itself!). As in most Yearbook articles, it was just a smattering of games. The line is extremely unclear and very difficult to analyze, especially with computers giving misleading variations. Pontus Carlsson gave this line two punts recently and I believe won both games, with Negi turning down the material and another guy grabbing it. I've looked at the line a little bit, realized it would take an enormous amount of work to come to a conclusion, then stopped, but I'm sure I'll pick it up again.

    One thing I did notice though was that the computers evaluations looked off to me. You'd see a +- eval, then 3 "best" moves later it would give White +=, then when it sees Black has a lot of play, then it would switch to -+! Computers don't find a lot of plans that humans would find also. One idea I thought was interesting against various tries by White was ...Be8, Nd7-b6-a4/c4. The bishop also can poke out at f7 after h4-h5 and hg ...fg. Interesting stuff!
  10. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    22 Aug '08 20:57 / 1 edit
    I realize I'm hijacking this thread a little bit, but I did manage to track down the game in question:

  11. 22 Aug '08 23:03
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    I've seen the Yearbook 85 article, but wasn't too impressed with the coverage (No offense to the move itself!). As in most Yearbook articles, it was just a smattering of games. The line is extremely unclear and very difficult to analyze, especially with computers giving misleading variations. Pontus Carlsson gave this line two punts recently and I believe w ...[text shortened]... /c4. The bishop also can poke out at f7 after h4-h5 and hg ...fg. Interesting stuff!
    Yeah, the yearbook is limited a bit-but it does give a flavour of the newest tries so it's definitely worth looking at.

    The game you give shows some nice ideas for black - I hadn't really looked at the bishop to e8 idea, very interesting and will probably take up a bit of my weekend now : )

    My plan had been to play a quick ...d5 (e.g.instead of ...Rc8) which can cause serious problems OTB, but as I said earlier will struggle to convince a computer in the long-run!

    Thanks for the help there though TONY-i'll have to update my database as I don't have the Carlsson games at all.

    Andy Burnett
  12. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    22 Aug '08 23:48
    Originally posted by streetfighter
    Check out Greenpawn 34's link

    http://www.chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandlerarticle.php?ChandID=279

    Bump : )
    so you are andrew?
  13. 23 Aug '08 00:01
    Originally posted by irontigran
    so you are andrew?
    I am (unless you are the IRS/taxman/police etc, in which case I am Chandler of Chandler Cornered
  14. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    23 Aug '08 00:26
    Originally posted by streetfighter
    I am (unless you are the IRS/taxman/police etc, in which case I am Chandler of Chandler Cornered
    cool

    want to play a game?
    if you beat me i will (should) buy your book (as long as i figure out the exchange rate etc)
  15. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    23 Aug '08 01:07
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    I've never bothered to learn this variation because I always thought playing the normal ...Ne5, ...Rc8 variation would reward the better prepared and was better, but I think that the main line goes something like 11. Bb3 Na5 12. Bh6 b5! but that's about all I got.

    I was able to dig up some high level games though:

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess ...[text shortened]... out of commission) 15...b4!?, when 16. bxc4 bxc3 17. Qxc3 Qc7! is critical, and very unclear.
    The second game you quoted called it the Yugoslav Attack. Is that the R-b8 that makes it so?