This is probably a stupid question, but here it goes anyway. In the TOS it states that databases can be used. Does that include things like Shredder Chess online opening database?
(http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/opening-database.html)
If so, does anybody use them while playing here? Wouldn't that end up giving you a false (inflated by database use) rating?
Originally posted by st00p1dfac3I wasn't going to answer this, but I saw your apology in the other thread. I was rather testy (10 month project at work canceled) and so took offense at just about anything. So lets just move on...
This is probably a stupid question, but here it goes anyway. In the TOS it states that databases can be used. Does that include things like Shredder Chess online opening database?
(http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/opening-database.html)
If so, does anybody use them while playing here? Wouldn't that end up giving you a false (inflated by database use) rating?
First off yes, that is allowed.
Anyhoo, you could argue that. You could also argue that since databases and books are explicitly allowed in corr. chess then it's part of corr. skill and therefor part of the rating. Further, if you both are using the databse, then neither should gain a (large) advantage from it (some databases are better than others).
Personally, I use a db when I feel like it (usually wierd openings or round 2+ of a tournament) and when I do it both nets me a better position and helps prepare me for OTB tournaments by learning new lines. Since it is allowed in the TOS, you are accepting a handicap by not using one.
Originally posted by zebanoThanks. Sorry again about that other thread. I was just wondering, because it seems at my (very low) level that I would be gaining an almost unsporting amount of help by using something like that. So far I've only been using shredder chess to plug FEN's from other people's games in to see what it says (like the endgame from Thread 54892.)
I wasn't going to answer this, but I saw your apology in the other thread. I was rather testy (10 month project at work canceled) and so took offense at just about anything. So lets just move on...
First off yes, that is allowed.
Anyhoo, you could argue that. You could also argue that since databases and books are explicitly allowed in corr. chess then it ning new lines. Since it is allowed in the TOS, you are accepting a handicap by not using one.
Edit - I did the thread link properly. I feel cool now.
I'd never use databases or books because I think it's cheating. If you want to use a opening in a game then study it before hand then try it out in the game rather than sitting there with the opening database or book to help you out. All your doing is kidding yourself on because when you come to play an OTB game your book/database is long gone.
Originally posted by AudaciousThat was sort of my original point. Not quite so harsh though. I think Zebano has a point about seeing how the lines might work out. It's one thing to look at a book or database and play the lines out on a board, and another one to have someone else choosing the 'other' move and seeing how to respond to it.
I'd never use databases or books because I think it's cheating. If you want to use a opening in a game then study it before hand then try it out in the game rather than sitting there with the opening database or book to help you out. All your doing is kidding yourself on because when you come to play an OTB game your book/database is long gone.
Edit - and anyway, look at my games. I'm crap. I obviously haven't been using books or databases. It's just that I had been looking at the endgame from the thread mentioned above and it suddenly occurred to me that the rules say you can use databases - somehow I had never connected the ideas.
Originally posted by st00p1dfac3db gives you maybe half a pawn of advantage or so, if that's enough for you to win, fine. it isn't enough for the grandmasters though.
Thanks. Sorry again about that other thread. I was just wondering, because it seems at my (very low) level that I would be gaining an almost unsporting amount of help by using something like that. So far I've only been using shredder chess to plug FEN's from other people's games in to see what it says (like the endgame from Thread 54892.)
Edit - I did the thread link properly. I feel cool now.
at lower level the strength of using opening db is that you learn valuable lessons about openings. some move looks fine to you, snatching a pawn, maybe even winning. but then you see that none of the strong players play it. you start wondering why, and hopefully realize some fundamental misunderstanding in your thinking.
it's just stupid to insist on playing flawed ad hoc openings of your own, when you can use your games to learn them properly. don't fool around, make your games count.
Originally posted by wormwoodWell, that's two votes to one. Database it is. 🙂
db gives you maybe half a pawn of advantage or so, if that's enough for you to win, fine. it isn't enough for the grandmasters though.
at lower level the strength of using opening db is that you learn valuable lessons about openings. some move looks fine to you, snatching a pawn, maybe even winning. but then you see that none of the strong players play i ...[text shortened]... hen you can use your games to learn them properly. don't fool around, make your games count.
Originally posted by AudaciousYou still have to use the database effectively.
I think if people want to experiment with openings etc they should play unrated, but using a book/database is just cheating in my book, your not playing your own moves your playing those of a book/database.
And if the terms explicitly allow them it's not cheating. Any more than it's cheating to look at the board when you're playing OTB (which is disallowed in blindfold chess). It's just one of the things you're allowed to do in that particular format. You can choose not to do it, but you're choosing to put yourself at a disadvantage. Your choice. Your opponent may choose differently.
The point I usually try and make is that you still have to understand why you are making certain moves. For instance I have often encountered the following position arising from the Ba5 variation of the French Winawer...
It is black to move, why is Bxe5 bad (losing)? My database shows that white wins 61% of games where black plays this, and if white chooses the right rejoinder, it is even higher (also higher when you prune the databse to only include master games). You have a couple of options.
1. Figure it out yourself.
2. Look at what masters have played (db).
3. Play it against other people until they beat you.
In my opinion 1 is the best, but #2 is a good learning aid when that fails. If #3 occurs it is important to learn from it, but the goal is to avoid that situation entierly (lol).