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Originally posted by PhlabibitI dont think that searching for forced moves is fruitful - In my opinion its quite enough to compare suspects matchup with sample games played by humans, because they also have forced moves in their games.
I'm asking a question, I didn't say YOU said anything. I respect your opinion on the subject.
Shields Down Korch, friendly incoming transmission!
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Originally posted by KorchExactly my point, and No1 also found what I found... even if you disregard them the percentage change is minimal.
I dont think that finding for forced moves is fruitful - In my opinion its quite enough to compare suspects matchup with sample games played by humans, because they also have forced moves in their games.
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Originally posted by PhlabibitAnother thing to consider is that if there were a long enough sequence of forced moves to have a significant effect on the figures that might in itself be evidence of engine use. Humans don't generally find move sequences that are that long, and those that do are generally much stronger than the top players on this site.
Exactly my point, and No1 also found what I found... even if you disregard them the percentage change is minimal.
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Originally posted by no1marauderYou can have that toy if none of the ex-game mods object.
Nice. I really wish I had that toy. But I thought that Gate said you still have to be looking at the game move by move while doing the analysis?
You do agree, however, that a centaur i.e. a pretty good player using an engine for guidance isn't going to make obvious engine moves, so that type of cheat (the strongest kind) isn't going to be caught by DF's methods. In fact, a 1,2,3 analysis would probably be best.
When I talked about looking at the game move by move, I was referring to analyzing using Chessbase, where there are automated tools, but none of which are useful for game-modding. The is particularly so in the case of analysis using Fritz; you have produce analysis manually, move by move.
With the batch analyzer you just need to set up the batch of games, press start, and you can get on with your life... although it is quite fun to watch the progress.
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Originally posted by KeplerI really doubt if sequence of forced moves can be considered as evidence. Humans can find long sequences of forced moves, because its much easier to calculate lines with obvious moves
Another thing to consider is that if there were a long enough sequence of forced moves to have a significant effect on the figures that might in itself be evidence of engine use. Humans don't generally find move sequences that are that long, and those that do are generally much stronger than the top players on this site.
Originally posted by GatecrasherI do not object at all.
You can have that toy if none of the ex-game mods object.
When I talked about looking at the game move by move, I was referring to analyzing using Chessbase, where there are automated tools, but none of which are useful for game-modding. The is particularly so in the case of analysis using Fritz; you have produce analysis manually, move by move.
W ...[text shortened]... ress start, and you can get on with your life... although it is quite fun to watch the progress.
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Originally posted by GatecrasherWell. I personally wouldn't object. After all, it's your tool and you should be able to give it to whoever you want.
You can have that toy if none of the ex-game mods object.
When I talked about looking at the game move by move, I was referring to analyzing using Chessbase, where there are automated tools, but none of which are useful for game-modding. The is particularly so in the case of analysis using Fritz; you have produce analysis manually, move by move.
W ...[text shortened]... ress start, and you can get on with your life... although it is quite fun to watch the progress.
However, I think perhaps you should clear this with Russ?
Originally posted by GatecrasherNo objections.
You can have that toy if none of the ex-game mods object.
When I talked about looking at the game move by move, I was referring to analyzing using Chessbase, where there are automated tools, but none of which are useful for game-modding. The is particularly so in the case of analysis using Fritz; you have produce analysis manually, move by move.
W ...[text shortened]... ress start, and you can get on with your life... although it is quite fun to watch the progress.
Originally posted by David TebbIf Russ left it up to users to report, why not give users something worth reporting... info can't hurt, and perhaps the users could use the tool to substantiate any ticket they send.
Well. I personally wouldn't object. After all, it's your tool and you should be able to give it to whoever you want.
However, I think perhaps you should clear this with Russ?
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Originally posted by KeplerPossibly but if the initial move is good you may not see all the moves and certainly not see them all correctly before deciding it is worthwhile to play then as the combination progresses you simply succeed in finding subsequent moves that are now easier to see and simply play them.
Another thing to consider is that if there were a long enough sequence of forced moves to have a significant effect on the figures that might in itself be evidence of engine use. Humans don't generally find move sequences that are that long, and those that do are generally much stronger than the top players on this site.
I have done this regularly OTB although the down side there is that I am just as likely to get it wrong and enter into a combination only to find 3 or 4 moves down the line that missed a key move and I am now losing.
The only difference is that if the moves really are forced by playing them out on the analysis board here it is easier to see them that OTB therefore the chances of getting the combination right are improved..
Originally posted by !~TONY~!show me where anyone has even touched on the subject of database moves and whether or not they should be included, beyond the opening books of a chess engine. All moves are database moves tony, your idiotic twaddle speaks for itself. And anyone, except you of course, knows what a forced move is, you are avoiding once again my statement that games with long chains of forced moves are very rare. Your redefintion is comical and shallow. You are a database apologist and nothing more.
It's obvious to everyone in this thread but you that these moves should be excluded from analysis.
2. A forced move by definition limits the responses.
3. Given that you're 1340,
Originally posted by VarenkaUhhhh, his measure, as false and idiotic as it is, is meant to be an excuse to exclude certain openings from engine match up rates. Surely even you must realize how stoopid this is. 🙄
Tony, I share your approach.
I think that more mathematics, etc. need to be applied. I like the sound of your Ro# but I need to ponder on it some more but I make up my mind on the extent of its usefulness.