FICS ratings compared to USCF ratings

The FICS ratings alone mean a lot less now than they did.

In the early years, a few players got up in the 2200s and 2300s just by playing provisionally. Those guys are still around and don't play rated. That was the first knick to the ratings.

Then, there were what I call the honest years. Computers weren't developed or as cheap/easy to access, so few players actually owned them. The ratings were fairly accurate or at least linnear (1400s rarely upset 1800's and so on).

Now, we are in the computer age of internet chess. In the last 4 years or so, it has all changed. Computer cheaters have easy access to programs and hardware for FICS. They get banned and repeatedly come back. Some of them only cheat against low rated players; others think they are achieving something and just cheat the big guys. (I had a low rated player this week rated 500 points below me play 28 consecutive top 2 moves in an unrated game while chatting at 3 minute. ... That's why I play unrated now in the first place.)
Also, my ratings had me in the top 50 or so on the site. I have the same ratings but my place is sinking lower and lower. You can not convince me that many people are all getting better in the last 4 years on their own. It just doesn't make sense that 2006-2010 or even 2008-2010 could produce that many stronger players than the history of the site has all along. Whether you play an engine or not is random, so how can the ratings be accurate?

*This post is just about FICS, not this site.

By the way, I don't think all of my FICS opponents use engines. I think there are a lot of good honest players there. It's just the bad ones that ruin the whole thing.

I have had discussions with guests that are using engines before.
One of them asked me if I thought he was cheating simply because I lost.

It doesn't work like that. I can lose to a 1200 and not think he cheated at all.
It's the way you lose that counts.

If I see a mistake I made fine.
If I can point to a spot where I had a decision and say I made the wrong choice, fine.

It's the games where you don't see what you do wrong and still lose that arouse my suspicion.

I'm talking about the games where the guy just digs and digs at you, and you never have a way out for like 20 moves (Each of his is dead on accurate without a single concession.).

Then, when I have that suspicion, I log off and paste the game to Shredder.
I go move by move with infinite analysis and makes notes of every single move (1 Top, 2 2nd, 3 3rd, X Not In Top 3). If those percentages show something, then I am on to them. Also, with the move by move approach, you can take a move that is not in say the top 3 and go a move forward. Sometimes, the evaluation in numeric form is higher than the one you had as number 1. That means they probably have better hardware or a stronger engine.

You shouldn't go around saying everyone is an engine, but you should always go through your suspicious losses this way to verify.

I don't understand how or why someone would cheat.

I understand how a person could cheat in slow games, but blitz? How do people cheat at games under 15 minutes?

Originally posted by antiopenings
I understand how a person could cheat in slow games, but blitz? How do people cheat at games under 15 minutes?

There's software that has engine tools.

Arena is one way to log in to FICS with an engine.
They just click a button during the game, and it plays the top engine move.

Everyone is on to Arena now, so the cheats are getting more sophisticated.

BabasChess for instance, has an analysis tool. When the game is finished you can immediately analyze it with a built in engine. This engine will not load until the game is finished. This is designed to help you study your losses and prevent cheating.

I'd bet money someone has found a way around this by now though.

The problem with FICS is that there are so many different ways to login. One of them must have a glitch.

I preferred Jin over Babaschess.

I don't understand why anyone would cheat, at least they are good with computers?

I have to wonder why everyone is jumping around like a bee just flew up their...uh...nose...over this issue. There is no reason why anyone should care. This is like getting so upset that you turn red because someone is tailgating you on the highway. There is no cause to change your own behavior because of it. I just keep driving like I want to, and remind myself that it's the other guy who is busting his spleen because he has to get home to check Facebook. If he starts doing something annoying like flashing his lights, I simply move my mirror. (Of course, if he honks his horn, I slow down, but that goes without saying.)

The same is true with this issue. I play chess to play chess. I don't care if an engine beats me or a human beats me. In either case there is a reason that I lost and that is what I focus on. Let other people stress out and take years off their lives.

Originally posted by thesonofsaul
I have to wonder why everyone is jumping around like a bee just flew up their...uh...nose...over this issue. There is no reason why anyone should care. This is like getting so upset that you turn red because someone is tailgating you on the highway. There is no cause to change your own behavior because of it. I just keep driving like I want to, and ...[text shortened]... lost and that is what I focus on. Let other people stress out and take years off their lives.

Exactly.

Originally posted by thesonofsaul
I have to wonder why everyone is jumping around like a bee just flew up their...uh...nose...over this issue. There is no reason why anyone should care. This is like getting so upset that you turn red because someone is tailgating you on the highway. There is no cause to change your own behavior because of it. I just keep driving like I want to, and ...[text shortened]... lost and that is what I focus on. Let other people stress out and take years off their lives.

Let's say you have a 2100 rating and want to get to 2200. There are few players in that range when you log in , so you have to play down. If a 1600 answers, you only get 1 or 2 points for a win and lose 32. That means you have to beat 16-32 of those guys in a row. If 1 turns on an engine, you break even. If 2 do it, you are worse off than when you started. This makes trying to set a goal and obtain it impossible. I have written FICS many times with the results/matchups of the games. They don't ban players immediately, and you can not get your rating back that way.

I agree they have no effect on you if you just want to play a good game and move on.

If you want to keep testing yourself and see if you are improving, that's where the rub is.

I am now convinced for that you probably have to switch from FICS to ICC. They have higher rating ranges and better monitoring software. I ran into fewer cheats (but some) over a 1 year period. The problem is the price though. $80 a year is a little steap. In fact, my membership just expired there, and I am debating renewing.

Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
Let's say you have a 2100 rating and want to get to 2200. There are few players in that range when you log in , so you have to play down. If a 1600 answers, you only get 1 or 2 points for a win and lose 32. That means you have to beat 16-32 of those guys in a row. If 1 turns on an engine, you break even. If 2 do it, you are worse off than wh ...[text shortened]... ar is a little steap. In fact, my membership just expired there, and I am debating renewing.

My point exactly. What satisfaction is there in getting to 2200? What does it mean? What if it is a fluke? Once you get there, do you stop playing because you might go down a few points? How can this attitude not kill the game of chess for a person?

The only reason rating exists is to make sure you get a good challenge every time. The rating is not a game in itself, nor should it be.

BTW, $80 a year is less than $7 a month. 😛

Originally posted by thesonofsaul
My point exactly. What satisfaction is there in getting to 2200? What does it mean? What if it is a fluke? Once you get there, do you stop playing because you might go down a few points? How can this attitude not kill the game of chess for a person?

The only reason rating exists is to make sure you get a good challenge every time. The rating is not a game in itself, nor should it be.

BTW, $80 a year is less than $7 a month. 😛

It's not about the number of the rating. It's about knowing whether all the time invested in practice and study is making progress. I can study until I am blue in the face and not beat Rybka, but I can beat a few extra guys that I couldn't beat before.

It's not about the number. It's about the progress.

BTW, (about ICC) It's actually less than a quarter a day, but it's easy to go months without using it. I know I did. In that case the ratio of price per day, doesn't really account for much.

Internet chess is for fun. REAL TOURNAMENTS are to see how you are progressing. 😉

Originally posted by antiopenings
Internet chess is for fun. REAL TOURNAMENTS are to see how you are progressing. 😉

What if you live 2-3 hours away and can't get there?

Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
What if you live 2-3 hours away and can't get there?

I drive up to 8 hours to get to tournaments. 2-3 hours is the norm.
Thanks for declining my game btw. 😠

Originally posted by antiopenings
I drive up to 8 hours to get to tournaments. 2-3 hours is the norm.
Thanks for declining my game btw. 😠

You are fortunate to have transportation and the time to play!

I didn't decline a challenge. I may have challenges turned off, but I never actually received one from you and turned it down. Sorry