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  1. 22 Aug '06 19:39
    Been trying this OTB but I often have difficulties finding compensation for the pawn(s).Black's position looks a bit too solid to justify the gambit.Or maybe I just lack understanding of the position and need more practice.

    Anyone any thoughts?Games?Pet lines?
  2. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    22 Aug '06 19:43
    Originally posted by Gorgar
    Been trying this OTB but I often have difficulties finding compensation for the pawn(s).Black's position looks a bit too solid to justify the gambit.Or maybe I just lack understanding of the position and need more practice.

    Anyone any thoughts?Games?Pet lines?
    I love gambits and I hate the French but this is a line I don't know.

    Maybe it will be my salvation.

    Does it derive from another variation in the French? What are the moves? I can't find it in my book!
  3. Standard member anthias
    ambitious player
    22 Aug '06 19:58 / 1 edit
    1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. Nf3 Qb6 6. Bd3

    French Defense / Paulsen Attack / Milner-Barry Gambit
  4. 22 Aug '06 20:11
    Andrew Soltis recommends the Milner-Barry Attack in one of his books. I think it is analyzed in "Winning with 1 e4.'
  5. 22 Aug '06 21:01
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    I love gambits and I hate the French but this is a line I don't know.

    Maybe it will be my salvation.

    Does it derive from another variation in the French? What are the moves? I can't find it in my book!
    It derives from the french advance.Like Anthias showed.The idea is to sac both the d and e-pawn to get a fast attack.Of course,Black can opt to accept just 1 pawn or none at all.

    1.e4,e6 2.d4,d5 3.e5,c5 4.c3,Nc6 5.Nf3,Qb6 6.Bd3,cxd4 (The correct move order is important cause if Bd7 now,white has dxc5 which is good for white)7.cxd4 (a little trap here,black cannot make the captures on d4 just yet cause then he loses the queen after Bb5+).Hence 7....,Bd7! (removing the Bb5+ trap) 8.Nc3,Nxd4 9.Nxd4,Qxd4 10.0-0 here Black must decide to grab the 2nd pawn or not.
  6. 23 Aug '06 09:34
    Hm,I seem to detect a certain lack of intrest
  7. 23 Aug '06 11:24
    Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
    I'm interested in finding a new approach to combat the French, I hate playing against the Winawer more than anything. Considering playing:
    1.e4 e6
    2.d4 d5
    3.ed ed
    4.c4
    When next up against the French.
    a Panov attack vrs the french? I rather doubt it if only because you have removed blacks biggest weakness, the trapping of his c8 bishop. YOu are also volunteering to have an isolani which I personally try to avoid...I have played against that twice, once was a blitz game which I won and one was on here (and I lost).
  8. 23 Aug '06 11:54 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
    I'm interested in finding a new approach to combat the French, I hate playing against the Winawer more than anything. Considering playing:
    1.e4 e6
    2.d4 d5
    3.ed ed
    4.c4
    When next up against the French.
    I've had some succes with the Kings Indian Attack against the French - here are some moves from a game shown in Angus Dunnington's book played by Hodgson - Seirawan in 1986
    1.e4...e6
    2.d3...d5
    3.Nd2...Nf6
    4.Ngf3...c5
    5.g3...b6
    6.Bg2...Bb7
    7. 0-0...Nc6
    8.Re1...Be7
    9.c3

    These are typical moves for the KIA, fianchettoing the Kings Bishop etc and I also like bringing the c1 Knight to cover the e4 pawn. I reckon/hope that French players might underestimate my playing strenghth when they see 2.d3 and then might not be so familiar with this line as it evolves. The board does get quite cramped! In theory - it avoids French theory!
  9. 23 Aug '06 13:26
    The problem with the Kings indian attack is that Black can just play 2...c5 and we got a Closed Sicilian

  10. 23 Aug '06 14:23
    Originally posted by zebano
    a Panov attack vrs the french? I rather doubt it if only because you have removed blacks biggest weakness, the trapping of his c8 bishop. YOu are also volunteering to have an isolani which I personally try to avoid...I have played against that twice, once was a blitz game which I won and one was on here (and I lost).
    It's a standard line in the French Exchange. It's pretty much equal as I understand it (whatever relevance that has at my level). The French Exchange is just boring though.

    On the original topic, I've played the French for years and have never had the Milner-Barry gambit played against me. I'm not really sure what the compensation is so I don't know what the best plan is on either side.
  11. 24 Aug '06 20:07
    Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
    I'm interested in finding a new approach to combat the French, I hate playing against the Winawer more than anything. Considering playing:
    1.e4 e6
    2.d4 d5
    3.ed ed
    4.c4
    When next up against the French.
    Waitzkin liked this approach.
  12. 24 Aug '06 20:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    Waitzkin liked this approach.
    If you guys want a to play a gambit against the French I can only suggest one- The Reti Gambit. No, you haven't heard of it, yes it's active, and there's compensation for the pawn (which white grabs back 90% of the time anyway) and yes, it's very fun. OTB I've played one game with it...score 1-0.

    1.e4! e6??
    2.b3!! d5
    3.Bb2!!

    Common lines

    1.e4 e6
    2.b3 d5
    3.Bb2 Nf6
    4.e5 Nfd7
    5.Qg4

    (Theoretical Mainline)
    1.e4 e6
    2.b3 d5
    3.Bb2 dxe4
    4.Nc3 Nf6
    5.Qe2 Bb4
    6.0-0-0 Bxc3

    1.e4 e6
    2.b3 d5
    3.Bb2 c5
    4.ed5 ed5
    5.d4/5.Nf3/5.Bb5


    Games


    Sicilian Style...
    Georgiev,K (2470) - Jovicevic,B (2300) [B20]
    JUG-chT Nis, 1994

    1.e4 c5 2.b3 e6 3.Bb2 d6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.e5 dxe5 6.Nxe5 Be7 7.f4 Nbd7 8.Nc3 a6 9.Qf3 Qc7 10.0-0-0! 0-0 11.Bd3 Nxe5 12.fxe5 Nd7 13.Rde1 c4 14.bxc4 Nc5 15.Ne4 Nxd3+ 16.Qxd3 Rd8 17.Qf3 Qxc4 18.Rhf1 Rf8 19.Nf6+ Kh8 20.Re4 Qb5 21.a4 Qc6 22.Rh4 h6 23.Qf4 1-0


    Cherniaev,A (2430) - Nikolenko,O (2485) [C00]
    Moscow Alekhine op Moscow (4), 1996

    1.e4 e6 2.b3 d5 3.Bb2 dxe4 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Qe2 Nc6 6.Nxe4 Nd4 7.Qd3 c5 8.Nf3 Nxf3+ 9.Qxf3 Nxe4 10.Qxe4 Qd5 11.Qe3 Bd7 12.0-0-0 Bc6 13.f3 0-0-0 14.Bc4 Qd7 15.d4 cxd4 16.Bxd4 Ba3+ 17.Kb1 a6 18.Be2 Qe7 19.Bxg7 Rxd1+ 20.Rxd1 Rd8 21.Bd3 Rd5 22.Be5 Qc5 23.Qxc5 Bxc5 24.Bf4 Bd6 25.Bxd6 Rxd6 26.c4 Rd8 27.Kc2 Rg8 28.Rd2 a5 29.Kc3 h5 30.h4 Kc7 31.a3 b6 32.Bb1 e5 33.Bf5 Rh8 34.b4 axb4+ 35.axb4 Ra8 36.b5 Be8 37.Kb4 Ra1 38.c5 Rh1 39.cxb6+ Kxb6 40.Rd6+ Kc7 41.Ra6 Rxh4+ 42.Kc5 Rd4 43.b6+ Kb8 44.Be4 Ra4 45.Rxa4 Bxa4 46.Kd6 f5 47.Bxf5 Kb7 48.Kc5 h4 1-0


    Garbarino,R (2325) - Dienavorian,M (2285) [C00]
    Casilda Casilda (5), 1984
    1.e4 e6 2.b3 d5 3.Bb2 dxe4 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Qe2 Nc6 6.0-0-0 Nd4 7.Qe1 Be7 8.d3 c5 9.dxe4 Qc7 10.e5 Nd7 11.f4 b6 12.Nge2 Nxe2+ 13.Bxe2 a6 14.Ne4 Bb7 15.Nd6+ Bxd6 16.exd6 Qd8 17.Qg3 Rg8 18.Bd3 g6 19.f5 1-0
  13. 24 Aug '06 20:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
    It looks not so boring to me, an open board with opportunities for tactical play, white has the isolani and must always keep it in mind..maybe use it as a battering ram, or keep an eye on it in defence.. What I am trying to avoid is that horrific diagonal line of pawns in the Winawer where black's Queen causes grief down white's Queen side and white's tter open play where I can shine. Exchange against the French is most likely my way forward.
    Hey, don't ignore the sweet opening I suggested. That's where your success lies!

    EDIT:Haha, oops, spoke too soon!
  14. 24 Aug '06 20:52
    I used to hate the french too. Probably beacause i didn't know the lines very well.Now i started playing it and it's great also i feel more confident facing it now, i've stopped using the french exchange as a defence against it, but i'm still uncomfortable facing the classical line e4 e6 d4 d5 nc3 nf6. You cand try using the Tarrasch as a defence....the main line leads to a somewhat open position. Now that was a lot of offtopic, I've never faced the Millner-Barry gambit but i've watched 2 lectures on it on fics wich were pretty interesting.
  15. 24 Aug '06 20:57
    Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
    I tried the tarrasch once Game 2189865,lost but quite liked it, I believe it's drawish at master level but it does seem quite open. Maybe I should try that for a few more games as well.
    Oh yeah, Tarrasch is pretty cool, but still...Reti Gambit is amazing.