Fritz and the Grob??

Originally posted by HomerJSimpson
what is a ply?

half a move

EDIT: It's the same reason that toilet paper comes in two ply.

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
How many ply?

Didnt count. And perhaps you misunderstood me. I`m not analysing only starting postition. I`m making one move - then giving engine time to analyse - then I`m choosing few best moves and give engine some time to analyse possible best replies ... and so on. It takes a lot of time, but it can give good results.

Folks, Thank you very much for all the energy you've "invested" in this thread. The Grob is a funny creature.

After about 40 Grob games I am finding that I cannot win decisively after allowing the g4 pawn sacrifice if black plays precisely. I am now leaning towards h3 or g5 (followed soon after by h4) as being better, although sacrificing the pawn can result in decisive wins against unprepared or inept opponents.

For you Grob experts (Korch for example)

I was happy with this Grob win in Game 2946193 but after winning his queen for 2 minor pieces early on I found it very difficult to break through and eventually resorted to 2 exchage sacrifices for a couple more pawns and penetration with my queen.

Is there a less drastic way I could have won this.

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
For you Grob experts (Korch for example)

I was happy with this Grob win in Game 2946193 but after winning his queen for 2 minor pieces early on I found it very difficult to break through and eventually resorted to 2 exchage sacrifices for a couple more pawns and penetration with my queen.

Is there a less drastic way I could have won this.

To see how could you exploit your material advantage better, you dont need to be Grob expert. - Engine will find it much faster and better.

Originally posted by Korch
To see how could you exploit your material advantage better, you dont need to be Grob expert. - Engine will find it much faster and better.

ok, so just about the first move...
what is white trying to accomplish with 1. g4
is he looking for an early pawn storm if black castles kingside?
obviously, white will almost never castle to the kingside, so black should be able to refocus play towards the a,b,c, and d files as a means of ramrodding the white king...
what are the basic ideas/themes for both sides in this opening?
in the middle games, where will each side try to get their pieces to land? (i.e. a knight on such-and-such a square) provided, of course, that neither side blunders or does something way out of grob book moves...

Originally posted by rubberjaw30
ok, so just about the first move...
what is white trying to accomplish with 1. g4
is he looking for an early pawn storm if black castles kingside?
obviously, white will almost never castle to the kingside, so black should be able to refocus play towards the a,b,c, and d files as a means of ramrodding the white king...
what are the basic ideas/themes ...[text shortened]... provided, of course, that neither side blunders or does something way out of grob book moves...

Main idea is getting more space in k-side (with pawn on g4) + pressure on center (with bishop on g2). For cathching more detailed ideas i would recommend you to analyse games on Basman.

Originally posted by rubberjaw30
ok, so just about the first move...
what is white trying to accomplish with 1. g4
is he looking for an early pawn storm if black castles kingside?
obviously, white will almost never castle to the kingside, so black should be able to refocus play towards the a,b,c, and d files as a means of ramrodding the white king...
what are the basic ideas/themes ...[text shortened]... provided, of course, that neither side blunders or does something way out of grob book moves...

Surprisingly black usually castles K-side. The pressure on the long white diagonal coupled with c4 and Qb3 often puts considerable pressure on blacks Q-side making castling here impossible, e.g. Game 3250510.

Of course pawn storms can also win,e.g. Game 2280281

Originally posted by Korch
Didnt count. And perhaps you misunderstood me. I`m not analysing only starting postition. I`m making one move - then giving engine time to analyse - then I`m choosing few best moves and give engine some time to analyse possible best replies ... and so on. It takes a lot of time, but it can give good results.

But if the first move the engine suggests is inaccurate then no matter how long you make the line it's completely invalid.

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
But if the first move the engine suggests is inaccurate then no matter how long you make the line it's completely invalid.

If these are forced lines, then engines are very precise 🙂

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
But if the first move the engine suggests is inaccurate then no matter how long you make the line it's completely invalid.

Correct, of course. But line pruning is quite infallible for accurate analysis if done properly and thoroughly; yet, a person who does this (hopefully for only postmortem analysis purposes) would have to understand the lines in which the engines are mistaken; for instance, e4 c5 Nf3 d6 d4 Bg7 dxc5 Qa5 c3 Na3 and an engine will want to take Bxc3...when bxc3 Qxc3 Qd2 Qxa1 Nb5 Na6 Nc3 and the Q is trapped...

Originally posted by Korch
If these are forced lines, then engines are very precise 🙂

But nothing is forced after 1. g4 d5.

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
But nothing is forced after 1. g4 d5.

After 2.Bg2 Bxg4 there is some only moves for white for not staying with pawn less wihtout compensation. Dont forget that I have talked abpout these lines - I have found line for black in which they gives back a pawn for positional advantage.

Originally posted by Korch
After 2.Bg2 Bxg4 there is some only moves for white for not staying with pawn less wihtout compensation. Dont forget that I have talked abpout these lines - I have found line for black in which they gives back a pawn for positional advantage.

You cannot find the truth of the position after 1. g4 d5 using an engine.