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  1. Subscriber LordofADown
    King of all Hills
    16 Dec '06 07:58
    Okay, this may seem like quite a broad question, but I was looking for your take on which opening is better: the Ruy lopez, or the Giuoco Piano. From my own personal experience I have found the Giuoco much more effective, however it seems that the Ruy lopez is heavily preferred among most players on this site and in general. So what exactly does a player gain from putting that bishop on b5 as opposed to c4? I notice it's usually forced away by pawns anyways, which means white is reacting to blacks move, isn't that a loss of tempo!?! well anyways, I don't claim to know everything about chess and i'm looking for some insight from those of you who do
    Thanks in advance for ANY helpful posts!!!
    -Lord
  2. 16 Dec '06 08:06 / 1 edit
    Yes, the Ruy is objectively better. It creates long term tension and gives White a small positional edge. However, that doesn't mean it's better for you.
  3. Subscriber LordofADown
    King of all Hills
    16 Dec '06 08:08
    I guess i was just wondering why the bishop belongs on b5 instead of c4.
  4. 16 Dec '06 09:16
    Main reason is pressure and it forces black to think from the outset, if you watch Andrew Martin dvd's he refers to it as the 'lopez grip' because in the Ruy Lopez you can maintain pressure throughout the opening and into the middlegame. Alot of the time the bishop will come back to C2 and you'll have a pawns on e4 & c3 preparing d4 giving you a strong centre. It's deffo better than the Giuoco Piano.
  5. 16 Dec '06 12:08
    The Italian holds no real dangers for black after correct play (unless maybe in the Evans gambit).. of course, the Italian has good chances though.. The Spanish is a very rich and complex game, and black always some real problems to solve.
  6. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    16 Dec '06 16:28
    Originally posted by LordofADown
    Okay, this may seem like quite a broad question, but I was looking for your take on which opening is better: the Ruy lopez, or the Giuoco Piano. From my own personal experience I have found the Giuoco much more effective, however it seems that the Ruy lopez is heavily preferred among most players on this site and in general. So what exactly does a play ...[text shortened]... some insight from those of you who do
    Thanks in advance for ANY helpful posts!!!
    -Lord
    In beginner and novice play the GP is more common. In expert, IM or GM play the RL is more common.

    The RL is harder but better.
  7. 16 Dec '06 20:01
    Against a skilled player the Guioco Piano might not be the best choice because it is not as complicated as the Ruy Lopez. The Ruy lopez involves a pin on blacks knight to blacks king which is why you put the bishop on B5. If black moves his d-pawn then the knight becomes pinned, if not then it is free to move, but if it does move then blacks knight gives up controll of the center squares d4 and e5. (moving the knight is a bad move)

    Usually black pushes his a-pawn to a6 to make white decide whether to exchange the bishop for the knight. Usually white decideds not to exchange because the white bishop can be a dangerous and valuable piece on the white side since it attacks the f7 square (a weak square for black). If white were to decide to exchange pieces then black has to choose which pawn to take whites bishop with and in doing so black gets doubled pawns on the c-file which can actually be either a weakness or a strength depending on how black uses them. If black leaves the pawn stationary and undefended they are an easy target for white, but black should instead try to advance them while keeping them defended with pieces. In the exchange variation (BxN) white wants to trade away all the pieces in order to accentuate the weakness of the doubled pawns into the endgame.

    If white retreates his bishop to a4 after black plays a6 then the pin on the knight is still a threat, but since black has moved his a-pawn there has been a weakness created on the b6 square - the a-pawn can no longer defend that square. Once black moves the b-pawn to b5 in order to fully break the bishops pin on the knight black creates a greater weakness behiend those pawns on the squares a5 a6 b6 c6 and c5 because they can no longer be defended by pawns and these squares are subject to occupation by whites pieces.

    This is just a brief overview of some of the reasons behiend moving the bishop to b5 instead of c4. I hope it gives you some insight into the Ruy Lopez.
    This goes into much greater detail: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/adam.bozon/ruylopez.htm
  8. Subscriber LordofADown
    King of all Hills
    16 Dec '06 20:16
    Thanks alot for all the posts guys.
    And Thanks Jester that was very helpful.
  9. 28 Dec '06 01:16
    totally agree with the comments of Jester,
    I can add that many times after the bishop has retreated with "loss"of tempo to b3 or c2 white can attack blacks structural weakness with a4
  10. Subscriber LordofADown
    King of all Hills
    28 Dec '06 03:42 / 1 edit
    Well the main reason I use the Italian over the Spanish is because of my preference for open games. That's where the excitement's at
  11. 28 Dec '06 03:43
    Originally posted by LordofADown
    Well the main reason I use the Italian over the Spanish is because of my preference for open games. That's where the excitement's at
    The Ruy seems more exciting than the GP to me.
  12. Subscriber LordofADown
    King of all Hills
    28 Dec '06 03:50
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    The Ruy seems more exciting than the GP to me.
    All you high rated players have warped views of what's exciting.
  13. 28 Dec '06 03:51
    Originally posted by LordofADown
    All you high rated players have warped views of what's exciting.
    I play the KG, Dragon, and Grunfeld.

    What about my warped view?
  14. Subscriber LordofADown
    King of all Hills
    28 Dec '06 03:58
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    I play the KG, Dragon, and Grunfeld.

    What about my warped view?
    uhhh...
    welcome to the team!
  15. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    28 Dec '06 05:43
    One of GP pluses comparing with RL, is that GP dont needs so much theoretical knowledges.