Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    16 Mar '06 20:25
    How does black win this?

    Black's move.

  2. 16 Mar '06 20:32
    Way to copy puzzles right off of chessbase.com...

    If I recall correctly the game is Topalov vrs. Shirov. I'll leave you to puzzle out the solution (it is a good one).
  3. 16 Mar '06 23:35
    Be4, tying down the king to defense. Then, start pushing the king and the pawns forward.
  4. 17 Mar '06 01:25
    Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
    Chesskid! How are the 'other' chesskids ?
    Subtle Smaug.


    I like Be4 also, followed by the king moving in for the kill and attacking the h, g pawns and at the same time pushing the black pawns.
  5. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    17 Mar '06 03:30
    Originally posted by zebano
    Way to copy puzzles right off of chessbase.com...

    If I recall correctly the game is Topalov vrs. Shirov. I'll leave you to puzzle out the solution (it is a good one).
    Evidently not everyone reads ChessBase because there's been a run of wrong answers.

    I drew Fritz 8 in 203 moves after the machine failed to find the correct move from this position.
  6. Standard member Kirwan
    Mel Kirwan
    17 Mar '06 05:24
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    Evidently not everyone reads ChessBase because there's been a run of wrong answers.

    I drew Fritz 8 in 203 moves after the machine failed to find the correct move from this position.
    I remember this game. Shirov has an incredible imagination - got to think 'out of the box' as you Americans say
  7. 17 Mar '06 05:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    How does black win this?

    Black's move.

    [fen]8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p2B3P/8/6P1/6K1 b - - 0 1[/fen]
    Hmm, 1...Bh3!! really intrigues me. The point is, if white takes it , it gives black's king access to f5, then ..Ke4 booting or blocking off white's bishop with ...d4! and allowing one of the queenside pawns to run. If white doesn't take and plays kf2, Ke3 then black captures the g pawn. Am I brilliant? (no, I don't know the game).
  8. Standard member GalaxyShield
    Mr. Shield
    17 Mar '06 06:06
    Originally posted by Regicidal
    Hmm, 1...Bh3!! really intrigues me. The point is, if white takes it , it gives black's king access to f5, then ..Ke4 booting or blocking off white's bishop with ...d4! and allowing one of the queenside pawns to run. If white doesn't take and plays kf2, Ke3 then black captures the g pawn. Am I brilliant? (no, I don't know the game).
    I was thinking Bh3 also. it makes sense as it gives the king more freedom to chase the bishop if he wants and has 3 clear passed pawns. You should think one of them should be able to promote.
  9. 17 Mar '06 14:50
    Originally posted by Regicidal
    Hmm, 1...Bh3!! really intrigues me. The point is, if white takes it , it gives black's king access to f5, then ..Ke4 booting or blocking off white's bishop with ...d4! and allowing one of the queenside pawns to run. If white doesn't take and plays kf2, Ke3 then black captures the g pawn. Am I brilliant? (no, I don't know the game).
    Lets say gxh3, Kh5, where can your king go without dropping the f-pawn?
  10. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    17 Mar '06 15:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zebano
    Lets say gxh3, Kh5, where can your king go without dropping the f-pawn?
    The f-pawn is unimportant, and Shirov dropped it in the game against Topalov. On my box, on the other hand, Fritz 8 playing white opts to leave the f-pawn in play.

    Part of the appeal to me of this problem stems from learning that Fritz rejects the move that Shirov played. Consequently, I was able to draw the beast playeing white, and win playing black. (Yes, I have all the 3-4-5 piece tablebases, and a few six piece, too.)

    [Event "?"]
    [Site "?"]
    [Date "2006.03.16"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Fritz 8"]
    [Black "Wulebgr"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [SetUp "1"]
    [FEN "8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p2B3P/8/6P1/6K1 b - - 0 1"]
    [PlyCount "19"]

    1... Bh3 2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bb2 d4 5. Ba3 Kd3 6. Bb2 f5 7. Ba1 a3 8. Kf3
    Kc4 9. Ke2 a2 10. Bb2 d3+ 0-1

    [Event "?"]
    [Site "?"]
    [Date "2006.03.17"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Fritz 8"]
    [Black "Wulebgr"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [SetUp "1"]
    [FEN "8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p2B3P/8/6P1/6K1 b - - 0 1"]
    [PlyCount "19"]

    1... Bh3 2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bc5 d4 5. Ke2 f5 6. Kd2 f4 7. Ke1 Kd3 8. Kf2
    Kc4 9. Bd6 Kc3 10. Be5 a3 0-1

    [Event "?"]
    [Site "?"]
    [Date "2006.03.16"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Wulebgr"]
    [Black "Fritz 8"]
    [Result "1/2-1/2"]
    [SetUp "1"]
    [FEN "8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p2B3P/8/6P1/6K1 b - - 0 1"]
    [PlyCount "405"]

    1... a3 2. Kf2 g5 3. hxg5 fxg5 4. Ke2 Be4 5. g3 Kf5 6. Ke3 a2 7. Ba1 Kg4 8. Kf2
    Bh7 9. Bd4 Kh3 10. Bf6 Bb1 11. Bd4 Kg4 12. Ba1 Bd3 13. Bd4 Kf5 14. Ke3 Bc2 15.
    Ba1 Kg4 16. Kf2 Be4 17. Bd4 Bd3 18. Ba1 Bc4 19. Bd4 Be2 20. Ba1 Bb5 21. Bd4 Bc6
    22. Ba1 Bd7 23. Bd4 Be6 24. Ba1 Bf5 25. Bd4 Bg6 26. Ba1 Be8 27. Bd4 Ba4 28. Ba1
    Kf5 29. Ke3 Bb3 30. Bd4 Kg4 31. Kf2 Bc4 32. Ba1 Ba6 33. Bd4 Bf1 34. Ba1 Kh3 35.
    Bd4 Be2 36. Bf6 Bd3 37. Be5 Be4 38. Bd4 Bf5 39. Bf6 Bc2 40. Be5 Bd1 41. Bd4 Bh5
    42. Bf6 Kg4 43. Ba1 Kf5 44. Ke3 Bf7 45. Bd4 Kg4 46. Kf2 Be8 47. Ba1 Bg6 48. Bd4
    Bf5 49. Bf6 Kh5 50. Bd4 Be4 51. Ba1 Bh1 52. Bd4 Kg4 53. Ba1 Kh3 54. Bd4 g4 55.
    Ba1 Be4 56. Be5 Bf3 57. Ba1 Kh2 58. Be5 Be4 59. Ba1 Bd3 60. Be5 Bf5 61. Ba1 Kh3
    62. Be5 Bd3 63. Ba1 Bc4 64. Be5 Bb3 65. Ba1 Bd1 66. Be5 Bc2 67. Ba1 Bd3 68. Be5
    Bb5 69. Ba1 Be2 70. Be5 Bc4 71. Ba1 Kh2 72. Be5 Bd3 73. Ba1 Be4 74. Be5 Kh3 75.
    Ba1 Bh1 76. Bd4 Bg2 77. Ba1 Kh2 78. Bd4 Bf1 79. Ba1 Bb5 80. Bd4 Be8 81. Ba1 Bg6
    82. Bd4 Bc2 83. Ba1 Bb3 84. Bd4 Bd1 85. Ba1 Be2 86. Bd4 Bb5 87. Ba1 Ba6 88. Bd4
    Kh3 89. Ba1 Bc8 90. Be5 Be6 91. Ba1 Bg8 92. Be5 Bh7 93. Ba1 Kh2 94. Be5 Bb1 95.
    Ba1 Bc2 96. Bd4 Bb3 97. Be5 Ba4 98. Bd4 Kh3 99. Bc3 Bc6 100. Bd4 Bb7 101. Bc3
    Kh2 102. Bd4 Ba8 103. Be5 d4 104. Bxd4 Bd5 105. Ba1 Kh3 106. Be5 Bc4 107. Ba1
    Bd3 108. Be5 Bb5 109. Ba1 Bc6 110. Be5 Bb7 111. Ba1 Be4 112. Be5 Kh2 113. Ba1
    Bf3 114. Bb2 Kh3 115. Bc3 Bg2 116. Bd4 Kh2 117. Be5 Bb7 118. Bf6 Bc6 119. Bg7
    Be8 120. Bh8 Bf7 121. Bg7 Bb3 122. Bf6 Kh3 123. Be5 Be6 124. Bd4 Kh2 125. Bc3
    Bf5 126. Bb2 Kh3 127. Bc3 Bc2 128. Bb2 Kh2 129. Ba1 Bd3 130. Bb2 Bc4 131. Ba1
    Kh1 132. Bb2 Bd5 133. Ba1 Bf3 134. Bb2 Be4 135. Ba1 Bc6 136. Bb2 Ba4 137. Ba1
    Bb3 138. Bb2 Bg8 139. Bc3 Kh2 140. Bb2 Kh3 141. Bc3 Bf7 142. Bb2 Be8 143. Bc3
    Bg6 144. Bb2 Bc2 145. Bc3 Ba4 146. Bb2 Kh2 147. Bc3 Bd7 148. Bb2 Kh1 149. Bc3
    Bb5 150. Bb2 Kh2 151. Bc3 Ba4 152. Bb2 a1=Q 153. Bxa1 Bc6 154. Be5 Bf3 155. Bb8
    Bd5 156. Bc7 Kh3 157. Bb8 Be6 158. Bc7 Bf7 159. Bb8 Bd5 160. Bc7 Be4 161. Ke3
    Bc2 162. Kf4 Bd3 163. Kg5 Bc4 164. Kh5 Bd5 165. Bd6 Be6 166. Be5 Kg2 167. Bf4
    Bc8 168. Be5 Kf3 169. Bc7 Bf5 170. Be5 Be6 171. Bb8 Bf7+ 172. Kg5 Bd5 173. Bc7
    Be4 174. Bb8 Bc6 175. Bc7 Bb7 176. Bb8 Bc8 177. Bc7 Be6 178. Bb8 Bc4 179. Bc7
    Bb3 180. Bd6 Bc2 181. Bf4 Bd3 182. Be5 Bb1 183. Bb8 Bh7 184. Bc7 Bc2 185. Bb8
    Bd1 186. Bc7 Be2 187. Bb8 Kg2 188. Bc7 Bf3 189. Bb8 Kh3 190. Bc7 Bd5 191. Bb8
    Be4 192. Bc7 Bc6 193. Bb8 Bd5 194. Bc7 Bb7 195. Bb8 Ba6 196. Bc7 Be2 197. Bb8
    Bf1 198. Bc7 Bd3 199. Bb8 Bc4 200. Bc7 Bb3 201. Bb8 Bd1 202. Bc7 Bc2 203. Bb8
    Be4 1/2-1/2
  11. 17 Mar '06 15:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zebano
    Lets say gxh3, Kh5, where can your king go without dropping the f-pawn?
    I allow it to drop.
    gxh3 Kf5, Kf2 Ke4, Bxf6 d4, Ke2 a3 (or Be7 Kd3) and the bishop is overworked.
  12. 17 Mar '06 15:27 / 1 edit
    Wulebgr, I am aware he dropped it, the point was to acertain that GalaxyShield understood the solution completly.
  13. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    17 Mar '06 16:04
    Originally posted by zebano
    Wulebgr, I am aware he dropped it, the point was to acertain that GalaxyShield understood the solution completly.
    Yes. I understood that. I'm sorry that I implied otherwise. GalaxyShield's mention of three passed pawns does raise doubts whether he would try to protect the f-pawn or not.
  14. 17 Mar '06 16:38
    Sorry, I'm a bit short on sleep here. I just assumed you were going to let them work it out on their own. That said, since fritz rejects it, can you play the bishop sac and win vrs fritz? Clearly, following the actual game should make that fairly easy, but I wonder if it can improve on Topalovs play at all?