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  1. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    09 Mar '06 13:23
    I'm thinking of storing my completed games into a database, now that the amount is still manageable. 95 games will still take some time, saving each game manually into one pgn, so I'd like to do it with some thought to save myself from redundant rework.

    first, I want to record the ratings as they were when the game ended, which I can get from the rating-graph one game at a time as I go through the game list. I started doing that, when it hit me that I would also like to record the reason why the game ended (resignation, checkmate, time) for possible later classification. but can I just plug that into some field in the game, or should keep a separate list-file for that? It could be cumbersome if I had to keep multiple lists manually up to date.

    from here arises another problem: is there a program or a way to later sort the games by 'ending-reason', or would I have to make my own for that? one possible way would be to keep three separate pgn's for each ending-reason, but that opens a triple can of worms concerning later processing.

    I would also like to gather information about piece-dropping etc, for later analysis of how my game is developing over time.


    I'm sure I'm not the first one to think about these things, so what kind of systems have you developed?
  2. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    09 Mar '06 13:35
    Originally posted by wormwood
    I'm thinking of storing my completed games into a database, now that the amount is still manageable. 95 games will still take some time, saving each game manually into one pgn,
    My Games, Email Games.

    D
  3. 09 Mar '06 13:51
    I once treid to make a database at of all my games at FICS - having for to many i decided to ignore blitz games and only use standard games - - that still left me with 1000 games.....which is simply far to much to contend with...(thats from 1st Jan this year).

    so heres my advice -- Only store games you are proud of, or you can learn somehing from, maybe even a few games were you lost badly - just to serve as a reminder. --but that timeout victory by move 3? whats the point it just clogs up space...
  4. 09 Mar '06 14:36
    Originally posted by Shinidoki
    ...Only store games you are proud of, or you can learn somehing from, maybe even a few games were you lost badly - just to serve as a reminder. ...
    I think you should especially retain the lost games because you learn far more from going over those and learning why you lost. If you can eliminate the mistakes from your future games, then you have truly progressed as a player.
  5. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    09 Mar '06 14:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
    I think you should especially retain the lost games because you learn far more from going over those and learning why you lost. If you can eliminate the mistakes from your future games, then you have truly progressed as a player.
    my idea is not to only analyse the games (which I do routinely on every lost game), but to document my 'chess-life', and possibly draw some meaningful statistical data from the games. say, like piece-dropping freq plotted against rating or amount of tactical training I'm doing etc. - to see if things correlate or have effect to each other. In 10 or 20 years I'd like to know what worked and what didn't.

    and thanks for the 'email games' -tip, I hadn't noticed it was possible.
  6. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    09 Mar '06 15:46
    You need a good quality database program, such as ChessBase or ChessAssistant. You can get either for $150 (a lot more if you want professionally annotated games as part of the package). Both programs allow you to store all the data you wish to put into the game in PGN format, as well as ready conversion to and from their proprietary format and PGN. The proprietary format of each uses less hard drive space than PGN, and facilitates the full range of search capabilities built into the program, including the capacity to search for specific text in the annotations. Free, limited trial versions are available at their respective websites.

    I started saving my online games in PGN format in 1998, using Chessmaster as my database program. When I later acquired ChessBase, it was a simple matter to import my PGN database (although it took a lot of hunting to find PGN format in Chessmaster--a program it is best to avoid for serious database work). After several years I've developed a database of nearly 25,000 games from my online play, and with ChessBase, I can create opening trees, search for games ending with checkmate by a pawn move, and nearly anything I desire.
  7. 09 Mar '06 16:19
    Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
    I think you should especially retain the lost games because you learn far more from going over those and learning why you lost. If you can eliminate the mistakes from your future games, then you have truly progressed as a player.
    oh yes, i'm not going to disagree but when you have a huge number of games you need to be more discriminate....

    I will Delete, Any game where are won or lost because of a huge blunder (i.e queen, knight hanging) unless it has redeeming features.


    Games like this Game 1837532 I can't learn much from... therefore, i simply delete them - whats the point in keeping it?

    On the other hand Games like this:

    [Event "rated standard match"]
    [Site "freechess.org"]
    [Date "2006.02.01"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Shinidoki"]
    [Black "John Smith"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [WhiteElo "1751"]
    [BlackElo "2100"]
    [ECO "C17"]
    [TimeControl "900"]

    1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. Qg4 Ne7 6. Nf3 O-O 7. Bd3 Nf5 8. Bg5
    Qa5 9. O-O Bxc3 10. bxc3 c4 11. Be2 Nc6 12. Bd2 Bd7 13. Nh4 Nce7 14. Nxf5
    Nxf5 15. Qg5 h6 16. Qf4 Qc7 17. g4 Ne7 18. Kh1 f5 19. g5 Ng6 20. Qg3 f4 21.
    Qg4 hxg5 22. Qxg5 Be8 23. Bh5 Rf5 24. Qg4 Qf7 25. Rg1 Rxh5 26. Qxh5 Ne7 27.
    Qg4 f3 28. Rg3 Nf5 29. Rh3 Qg6 30. Qxf3 Qf7 31. Rg1 b5 32. Bg5 a5 33. Bf6 b4
    34. cxb4 axb4 35. c3 Ra3 36. Qg4 bxc3 37. Rf3 Kf8 38. Bxg7+ Ke7 39. Bf6+ Kd7
    40. Qh3 Rxa2 41. Rxf5 exf5 42. Rg7 Qxg7 43. Bxg7 Bg6 44. Qxc3 Rxf2 45. Kg1
    Ra2 46. h4 f4 47. Bf6 Be4 48. Qh3+ Kc6 49. Qe6+ Kb5 50. Qd7+ Kb4 51. Be7+ Kc3
    52. Bc5 f3 53. Qh3 Rg2+ 54. Kf1 Kd2 55. h5 Bd3# {Shinidoki checkmated} 0-1

    I tend to keep - Despite the blunder[s] at the end...


    This way, when you have a big database at least you know its not full of crap games - I'd rather a condensed database of 100 games than 50,000 substandard ones
  8. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    09 Mar '06 17:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Shinidoki
    Games like this Game 1837532 I can't learn much from... therefore, i simply delete them - whats the point in keeping it?
    I routinely store all games, automatically at FICS, playchess, and the like. It requires time to root out the junk, so the junk stays (except bullet games, which can be deleted as a group easily). Even junk is sometimes useful, however. Yesterday, I showed a junk game to some kids I'm teaching because it resembles the way some of them play, but was not their game (so it didn't put them on the defensive).

    Remove black's queen.

    [Event "Classroom"]
    [Site "?"]
    [Date "2006.03.07"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Rank Beginner"]
    [Black "Wulebgr"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [SetUp "1"]
    [FEN "rnb1kbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
    [PlyCount "48"]
    [EventDate "2006.??.??"]

    1. c4 c5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. e3 Nc6 4. Be2 d6 5. a4 Bd7 6. g4 h6 7. Nf3 e5 8. h3 Be7
    9. Ra3 O-O 10. Rh2 a6 11. h4 Nxg4 12. Rg2 h5 13. Bd3 f5 14. Nh2 e4 15. Be2 Nb4
    16. f3 Bxh4+ 17. Kf1 Ne5 18. fxe4 fxe4+ 19. Kg1 Nbd3 20. Nf3 Nxf3+ 21. Kh1 Rf6
    22. Rb3 Bh3 23. Rxb7









    23...Rg6 24. Rxg6 Nf2# 0-1
  9. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    09 Mar '06 17:48
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    You need a good quality database program, such as ChessBase or ChessAssistant. You can get either for $150 (a lot more if you want professionally annotated games as part of the package). Both programs allow you to store all the data you wish to put into the game in PGN format, as well as ready conversion to and from their proprietary format and PGN. The prop ...[text shortened]... ing trees, search for games ending with checkmate by a pawn move, and nearly anything I desire.
    I took a peak at the chessbase, and looks like it's just what I'm looking for. the mega package looks even better, but it's 360€ against the 150€ of the starter package is quite a lot... still, it has 60 000 annotated games and other things as well...
  10. 09 Mar '06 21:26
    Originally posted by wormwood
    I took a peak at the chessbase, and looks like it's just what I'm looking for. the mega package looks even better, but it's 360€ against the 150€ of the starter package is quite a lot... still, it has 60 000 annotated games and other things as well...
    Chessbase is a very nice product. I own the starter package and it has served me well. I could barely justify the price of that, let alone the mega package. Will you ever use 60000 annotated games? When I search for a position, I almost never find an annotated game and I can still get the general gist of the plan (or figure out why a deviation was bad). I havn't experienced it so I can't give you a throughly informed opinion, but I think the started kit should meet your needs.
  11. 09 Mar '06 23:52
    Originally posted by zebano
    Chessbase is a very nice product. I own the starter package and it has served me well. I could barely justify the price of that, let alone the mega package. Will you ever use 60000 annotated games? When I search for a position, I almost never find an annotated game and I can still get the general gist of the plan (or figure out why a deviation was bad). I ha ...[text shortened]... n't give you a throughly informed opinion, but I think the started kit should meet your needs.
    If you searched the interenet I bet somebody has already uploaded those 60,000 games.