1. Joined
    06 Aug '07
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    8299
    07 Oct '12 01:12
    "that was a given"

    Only if you are familiar with the endgame.
  2. Standard memberapathist
    looking for loot
    western colorado
    Joined
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    9664
    07 Oct '12 05:34
    I'm barely, if at all, good enough to join this discussion. I play by feel these days, and barely spend more than a minute or two on my next move. But I remember getting a draw from an IM during a simultaneous exhibition, in which he beat the reigning California champion. Fifty boards. I earned a thin book by Horowitz on endgames! I was studying MCO at the time, but made an early mistake. Surviving to a draw made me float.

    That was fischer v spassky times. Fischer taught me a lot about endgames, too. Today, with my pickled brain, the opening and mid-game is sort of all about the endgame. A single pawn advantage should be enough.
  3. Standard memberWulebgr
    Angler
    River City
    Joined
    08 Dec '04
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    16907
    10 Oct '12 14:03
    My OTB opponents hope to beat me before we reach the endgame because their chances diminish when there are fewer pieces on the board. My own self-assessment, OTOH, is that my endgame is pretty weak.
  4. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
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    10 Oct '12 18:52
    those Dvoretsky tomes contain zillions of end game positions, GM Andrew Soltis has
    written that there are essentially about two dozen positions that one needs to know. I
    know how to win or draw with a king and a pawn and i used to know how to mate with
    a knight and bishop, and that is it, i don't know Philadors position or Lucena position or
    any other stuff.
  5. Under Cover
    Joined
    25 Feb '04
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    28912
    10 Oct '12 19:11
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    those Dvoretsky tomes contain zillions of end game positions, GM Andrew Soltis has
    written that there are essentially about two dozen positions that one needs to know. I
    know how to win or draw with a king and a pawn and i used to know how to mate with
    a knight and bishop, and that is it, i don't know Philadors position or Lucena position or
    any other stuff.
    Lev Alburt has made a similar claim in the introduction to his Chess Training Pocket Book (not entirely sure on the title). Unfortunately, I'm not sure which dozen or so positions he feels are the ones that you need to know. If chess could be reduced to even 1000 positions that you must know and understand to master, wouldn't someone have published that book already?
  6. Account suspended
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    10 Oct '12 19:43
    Originally posted by Maxwell Smart
    Lev Alburt has made a similar claim in the introduction to his Chess Training Pocket Book (not entirely sure on the title). Unfortunately, I'm not sure which dozen or so positions he feels are the ones that you need to know. If chess could be reduced to even 1000 positions that you must know and understand to master, wouldn't someone have published that book already?
    didn't Alburt publish a book something like the three hundred essential chess positions
    you must know? If i remember correctly it had a sleazy cover.

    I think its safe to say that one must know how to,

    1. win or draw with a king and pawn
    2. how to mate with a knight and bishop
    3. Lucena position
    4. Philador position

    hopefully others will add moreπŸ˜€
  7. Under Cover
    Joined
    25 Feb '04
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    28912
    10 Oct '12 20:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    didn't Alburt publish a book something like the three hundred essential chess positions
    you must know? If i remember correctly it had a sleazy cover.

    I think its safe to say that one must know how to,

    1. win or draw with a king and pawn
    2. how to mate with a knight and bishop
    3. Lucena position
    4. Philador position

    hopefully others will add moreπŸ˜€
    N+B mate is a neat thing to know, but not of any real practical value IMHO. I have only encountered the situation in one game ever, and that was a game that I was winning handily and intentionally traded down to reach the B+N situation, because I had recently studied it and was very impressed with myself at the time. πŸ˜€
  8. Account suspended
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    26 Aug '07
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    10 Oct '12 20:332 edits
    Originally posted by Maxwell Smart
    N+B mate is a neat thing to know, but not of any real practical value IMHO. I have only encountered the situation in one game ever, and that was a game that I was winning handily and intentionally traded down to reach the B+N situation, because I had recently studied it and was very impressed with myself at the time. πŸ˜€
    on the contrary, its of immense practical value, it teaches us piece co-ordination. πŸ˜€
  9. Under Cover
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    28912
    10 Oct '12 21:34
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    on the contrary, its of immense practical value, it teaches us piece co-ordination. πŸ˜€
    That's what they say, and I used to agree. However, in honest retrospect I never really gained anything except the cool ability to be able to force the win in that specific endgame. Come to think of it, I may go practice it again. It'd be nice to be good at some aspect of this game again...
  10. Account suspended
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    11 Oct '12 07:33
    Originally posted by Maxwell Smart
    That's what they say, and I used to agree. However, in honest retrospect I never really gained anything except the cool ability to be able to force the win in that specific endgame. Come to think of it, I may go practice it again. It'd be nice to be good at some aspect of this game again...
    then do it for the coolness πŸ˜€ what other positions do you think are essential?
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
    Joined
    24 Jan '11
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    13644
    11 Oct '12 09:50
    Thirty years ago, I knew all the basic endgames as well as a master. I may not be able to remember it all now however.
  12. Joined
    06 Aug '07
    Moves
    8299
    11 Oct '12 10:54
    "N+B mate is a neat thing to know, but not of any real practical value IMHO."

    I once saw a master not able to win this. I don't think he ever made that mistake again.
  13. Under Cover
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    11 Oct '12 11:02
    Originally posted by kbear1k
    "N+B mate is a neat thing to know, but not of any real practical value IMHO."

    I once saw a master not able to win this. I don't think he ever made that mistake again.
    I got the best feel for that endgame form a website: chessvideos.tv It was a great site, with nicely done training videos on a variety of critical endgame positions. Sadly, I can't seem to find it this morning. Hopefully it is still there and just down for a bit, it was a phenomenal resource to me when I had the time to go there. B+N, QvR, essential K+P positions, numerous essential R endings, all the basic mates...it was an incredible resource.
  14. Joined
    21 Feb '06
    Moves
    6830
    11 Oct '12 14:28
    Essential endgame positions...

    #1 Has to be complete understanding of K+P vs K. You have to be completely proficient at winning when it's a won position and drawing when it's a drawn one.

    My vote for #2 is this one:

    White to play and win

    The rook and pawn endings are very important and will gain you many more extra half-points than learning how to checkmate with bishop and knight (something I still can't do!). It's amazing how many endings end up with king and rook each and one side with an extra pawn.
  15. Account suspended
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    11 Oct '12 14:39
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    Essential endgame positions...

    #1 Has to be complete understanding of K+P vs K. You have to be completely proficient at winning when it's a won position and drawing when it's a drawn one.

    My vote for #2 is this one:
    [fen]6Q1/7K/8/8/8/8/2kp4/8[/fen]
    White to play and win

    The rook and pawn endings are very important and will gain you many more extr ...[text shortened]... t's amazing how many endings end up with king and rook each and one side with an extra pawn.
    K+Q v K+P on the seventh
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