Originally posted by mazziewagExactly!
Thats a bad idea, in such a dynamic opening if you go out of book against a competent player, which i think both players here are, the opponent should be able to look at the position, think "why hasnt that been played in my database" and try and work out how to exploit it (if possible). Its what i always try to do against a good opponent who goes out of my ...[text shortened]... a move that can be exploited. Hope chess isnt a clever idea, especially in this grudge match.
[Event "EUCup Gr3"]
[Site "Slough"]
[Date "1997.09.23"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Bosboom, Manuel"]
[Black "Kindermann, Stefan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E97"]
[WhiteElo "2430"]
[BlackElo "2570"]
[PlyCount "82"]
[EventDate "1997.09.22"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1998.01.31"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5
Ne7 9. b4 Nh5 10. Re1 Nf4 11. Bf1 a5 12. Ba3 Bg4 13. c5 f5 14. h3 fxe4 15. hxg4
exf3 16. gxf3 Nf5 17. Ne4 Nd4 18. cxd6 cxd6 19. b5 Qh4 20. Re3 Nh3+ 21. Bxh3
Qxh3 22. Ng5 Qh4 23. Ne6 Bh6 24. Rd3 Nxe6 25. dxe6 Bf4 26. e7 Qh3 27. exf8=Q+
Rxf8 28. Qc2 Bh2+ 29. Kh1 Bf4+ 30. Kg1 Bh2+ 31. Kh1 e4 32. Bb2 Be5+ 33. Kg1
Bh2+ 34. Kh1 Be5+ 35. Kg1 exf3 36. Qc4+ Rf7 37. Qc8+ Kg7 38. Bxe5+ dxe5 39.
Rxf3 Qxf3 40. Rf1 Rf4 41. Qc7+ Kh6 0-1
Game 3302503
16. g3? --Oh crap I've trapped my knight.....but but, how did a GM miss it, and an IM not play it?
Long think...........
ah. thats why.
Originally posted by SquelchbelchListen, I'd have been all for going out of book but 1. I've never even played this line (I've seen 12.Kb1 in a blitz game but I chose a different variation) and 2. It's really sharp, there are things I could so easily miss - and what's the point of trying to analyze everything when I know I've got a perfectly good move with the book move and knowing the amount of time it could take to thoroughly analyze everything in the position - pretty important when the TO is 1 day.
That's what I was hinting at earlier.
Someone should have been brave & gone out of book early. Then it's a chess game. A move that doesn't seriously weaken a position but takes it away from the DB before move 20 or so shouldn't be fatal considering both player's ratings are well below 2000.
This game is more a case of OoOoOoh! My database is bigger 'n yours!
Originally posted by ShinidokiExactly, and that's not easy for white to see, but black HAS to see it because it's so obviously not the best move (never been played...).
Exactly!
[Event "EUCup Gr3"]
[Site "Slough"]
[Date "1997.09.23"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Bosboom, Manuel"]
[Black "Kindermann, Stefan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E97"]
[WhiteElo "2430"]
[BlackElo "2570"]
[PlyCount "82"]
[EventDate "1997.09.22"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1998.01.31"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 ...[text shortened]... d an IM not play it?
Long think...........
ah. thats why.
Originally posted by cmsMasterGuess you see the noose awaiting you on the gallows 🙂
It was gonna disappear...no I haven't moved yet, don't want to overlook anything.
Game 3343363
1 edit
Originally posted by cmsMasterThe point is that you would be playing your own game then. Move 22 and neither of you has chosen your own move based on your own analysis, but you're just plucking moves out of book?
Listen, I'd have been all for going out of book but 1. I've never even played this line (I've seen 12.Kb1 in a blitz game but I chose a different variation) and 2. It's really sharp, there are things I could so easily miss - and what's the point of trying to analyze everything when I know I've got a perfectly good move with the book move and knowing the am ...[text shortened]... to thoroughly analyze everything in the position - pretty important when the TO is 1 day.
I know I'm a measly 1300 player but that dont seem like chess to me.
Originally posted by Wayne1324The fact is, there is no better move in most cases. cmsMaster and RahimK are still analyzing each move fairly thoroughly, but everything they come up with is in a book. They did still chose their own opening, they're still chosing book lines that suit them. And eventually, one of them will deviate from the book and proceed to get his face munched upon.
The point is that you would be playing your own game then. Move 22 and neither of you has chosen your own move based on your own analysis, but you're just plucking moves out of book?
I know I'm a measly 1300 player but that dont seem like chess to me.
1 edit
Originally posted by ih8sensI agree, there is no better move in most cases. But when does it go from book vs. book or memory vs. memory to chess skill vs. chess skill.
The fact is, there is no better move in most cases. cmsMaster and RahimK are still analyzing each move fairly thoroughly, but everything they come up with is in a book. They did still chose their own opening, they're still chosing book lines that suit them. And eventually, one of them will deviate from the book and proceed to get his face munched upon.
I guess I'll stay a 1300 here because that just dont seem like chess to me.
I'm fine at 1300, I'm playing for fun, not points.
On a side note, cmsMaster said in an earlier post "and what's the point of trying to analyze everything when I know I've got a perfectly good move with the book move and knowing the amount of time it could take to thoroughly analyze everything in the position - pretty important when the TO is 1 day." So he isn't analyzing much.
Originally posted by wormwoodGood point..just because a move is not in a database doesn't mean its a bad move...look at the database that shredderchess has....it sucks really big donkey balls...just learn the meaning of the moves so when they doing a move you have never seen you can react in better way.
don't you think not learning the correct way to play openings might be slightly, eh, "counterproductive?"
knowledge is power.
Originally posted by PatzergrlAlot of the times you will play a move that is bad but your opponent will not properly capitalize on that bad move and so you will keep playing it until your level rises and then all your opponents will properly capitalize on your one bad move leaving you going "wha!?" and then you will have to rethink your entire strategy.
Good point..just because a move is not in a database doesn't mean its a bad move...look at the database that shredderchess has....it sucks really big donkey balls...just learn the meaning of the moves so when they doing a move you have never seen you can react in better way.
Alot of the times you don't understand the book moves at first because that understanding only comes through experience... so I'd suggest sticking with book moves at first until you gain an understanding of the position before going out of book.
Originally posted by Patzergrlwhat non-database users most often don't understand is: you will get fried quite often if you just blindly follow databases. -some of the games might be blitz, decided by blunders, or like most often is the case: you just don't have the necessary skill to play correctly the 'good' continuation or the 'bad' sidelines the masters avoided.
Good point..just because a move is not in a database doesn't mean its a bad move...look at the database that shredderchess has....it sucks really big donkey balls...just learn the meaning of the moves so when they doing a move you have never seen you can react in better way.
it's crucial you analyse the book/db moves, to be sure you can handle what you're committing yourself into.