Originally posted by Wayne1324There has already been huge debates as to why correspondence allows database and book use. Simply because you cannot practically enforce it.
I agree, there is no better move in most cases. But when does it go from book vs. book or memory vs. memory to chess skill vs. chess skill.
I guess I'll stay a 1300 here because that just dont seem like chess to me.
I'm fine at 1300, I'm playing for fun, not points.
On a side note, cmsMaster said in an earlier post [b]"and what's the point of trying ...[text shortened]... n the position - pretty important when the TO is 1 day." So he isn't analyzing much.[/b]
For example, you are playing a game which opens with the Ruy Lopez. This game is going on for several weeks. Does that mean you will have to avoid all books that talk about the Ruy Lopez?
Now apply that for 50 games all with different openings. How are you goint to avoid reading any chess books that talk about these games?
The same applies to databases or even reading these forums. 😛
Originally posted by wormwoodWith all due respect and I mean no offense here, but I wonder what your rating here would be if you didn't use databases.
what non-database users most often don't understand is: you will get fried quite often if you just blindly follow databases. -some of the games might be blitz, decided by blunders, or like most often is the case: you just don't have the necessary skill to play correctly the 'good' continuation or the 'bad' sidelines the masters avoided.
it's [i]cr ...[text shortened]... alyse the book/db moves, to be sure you can handle what you're committing yourself into.
I am not singling you out, I wonder that about all high rated db users. Maybe the rating would be the same, I don't know.
Originally posted by Wayne1324If no one used databases, the skill level would go down, but the ratings would stay the same, because we all have the same 'handicap'
With all due respect and I mean no offense here, but I wonder what your rating here would be if you didn't use databases.
I am not singling you out, I wonder that about all high rated db users. Maybe the rating would be the same, I don't know.
Originally posted by Wayne1324I was 1550 when I started using dbs, and went down a few dozen points during the next 50 games or so. although some people feel they gained about 100 pts for db use, I saw no evidence of such.
With all due respect and I mean no offense here, but I wonder what your rating here would be if you didn't use databases.
I am not singling you out, I wonder that about all high rated db users. Maybe the rating would be the same, I don't know.
but, I started learning about the correct kind of opening moves, and now I can blitz reasonable opening moves intuitively. I also 'smell' an 'unbookish' move from miles away.
also, my games stopped looking like home-grown time machines, you know, the kind the crazy guys with undead hunckback assistants build, and instead like real games. sort of like the ones the big boys play.
Originally posted by ih8sensNot quite, it depends on how database use is distributed with respect to ratings. People with the highest ratings use databases most effectively, therefore if they stop, their ratings will drop very slightly. Where as, people with the lowest ratings who blindly follow databases will be at a greater disadvantage than not using databases at all.
If no one used databases, the skill level would go down, but the ratings would stay the same, because we all have the same 'handicap'
Therefore, I think the ratings will be slightly more equalised (the range between the lowest players and the highest players will drop slightly).
Originally posted by ih8sensThe ratings maybe would stay the same - but the people they belonged to would be vastly different. 😲
If no one used databases, the skill level would go down, but the ratings would stay the same, because we all have the same 'handicap'
edit; many people here never use databases - for whatever reason.
Originally posted by ih8sensA lot of the high rated players are high rated at OTB chess too so they are the ones it would have the least effect on. People who rely heavily on databases would suffer a definite drop in their ratings if they were to play without them.
I don't really agree with that. The people that are high rated are there because they're good, not because they know how to research.
Obviously, or what's the point of using a database?
All of this talk about DBs...
I'll start by saying that I use DBs in maybe 50% of my games - I'd kinda like to win this one so I looked at my book (not a DB anyhow, but same idea). In a lot of cases I just don't have a need for a DB, I know how to reach the main open Sicilian position from memory, I know how to reach the mainline Yugoslav position, and I know some 12.Kb1 theory - so the book was useful for checking moves, and helping to decide on a move where there may have been two possible choices for me (i.e. on move 12... black generally chooses between 12...Nc4 or 12...Re8, I read a bit on both before choosing the latter).
Do DBs affect my rating?
I'm not even sure, I've had good and bad experiences with DBs, it'd be interesting to see how my rating would change if I said no to them - but I use them for learning purposes (along with books) and so I'm going to keep using them.
What's the point of playing chess if you aren't playing your own chess?
I am playing my own chess, I just happen to know some good moves ahead of time because I've been in the position before - believe it or not this isn't the first Yugoslav Attack I've player - I know the moves leading up to it are probably best, and I've played them many times before. This isn't the first time I've seen 12.Kb1 either...I first saw it on blitz on PC - and I didn't need a book for it, I just knew that if I played something like 12...g5 instead of 12...Re8 it wouldn't be helpful - so yes, it's my own chess.
To whomever claims I didn't analyze at all, but just popped moves out of a book: No.
Originally posted by Raven69I use them, because using data bases you can understand what are the main plans and ideas of current opening line which i have no played before.
I don't use it because you can't use DB in OTB, and using it here would defeat my whole purpose of playing CC, which is to practise for OTB. 🙂