I never liked Fischer!!

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Wormwood.
In his last 20 years Fischer was not a well man both in body and in mind.
Although it is unseen a mental illness is still a disability.

Surely you cannot hold that against him?

Just rejoice in what he done for chess when he was a well man, not
at what he did and said when he was unwell.
If he had not been famous all of his ramblings and rantings would
have been ignored.

I was reading in Shenk's book The Immortal Game about the history of mental illness in strong chess players. A few examples [if memory serves]:

- Akiba Rubinstein went schizophrenic or other similar illness
- Curt Von Bardeleben [loser of a famous game with Steinitz] committed suicide jumping out a window
- Raymond Weinstein, a promising new US player around 1960, was rumored to be schizophrenic and jailed for assault. He later killed a fellow inmate with a razor blade.

And that's to say nothing about various other world champions and strong players with various unfortunate personality traits - Steinitz's mudslinging in his chess magazine, Staunton's insulting and later ducking of Morphy, Alekhine's allegedly hitting on the female help at dinners and bad table manners [so notorious that one popular theory is that he died choking on a piece of meat], Kasparov's breaking and reuniting with FIDE at his own convenience, etc. etc.

In short, many of the world champs seem like they weren't very likeable. Probably Tal had the best personality, but I'm sure now that I have mentioned his name there will be some anecdotes to the contrary. 😛

Originally posted by casualdust
Yes, he was a one of a kind in the chess world no doubt, but was still a piece a dirt, that he was. He praised 9/11. I just hope he's in hell. Charlotta

Well, here's a classy addition to the thread. 🙄

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Well, here's a classy addition to the thread. 🙄

The truth hurts, huh, Gambit? 😉 Just how classy are you? Charlotte

Originally posted by casualdust
The truth hurts, huh, Gambit? 😉 Just how classy are you? Charlotte

Why do you change between Charlotte and Charlotta? Is one a nickname or something?

Originally posted by tomtom232
Why do you change between Charlotte and Charlotta? Is one a nickname or something?

Psst...multiple personalities

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
his parents were Jewish, he himself was not, infact he was not even circumcised, and yes it does seem interesting, although i do not think it was entirely Reshevsky, but those who put up the money and called the shots, the organizers who were also Jewish that really got on his nerves!

hes immortal and was just too honest for most people!

You can't stop being jewish just because you wish it so. If your mom is jewish and your dad is jewish, you are jewish. What else would you call him? Indian? American? Sure, he is American, but he is still of 100% Jewish parentage so biologically he is jewish whether he acknowledges it or not. The fact was, both his mom and his dad were 100% Jewish, while he thought he was half German. Ironic to say the least, to be anti-jewish even though he was 100% biologically Jew. I wonder how much his internal thinking would have changed had he known that at the age of 10 or something? It might have change his attitude more to a personal hatred, like 'That rotton Reshevsky, I'll cremate him on the board' rather than thinking 'Fricking Jews, they are all alike, I hate them all.'

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I was reading in Shenk's book The Immortal Game about the history of mental illness in strong chess players. A few examples [if memory serves]:

- Akiba Rubinstein went schizophrenic or other similar illness
- Curt Von Bardeleben [loser of a famous game with Steinitz] committed suicide jumping out a window
- Raymond Weinstein, a promising new ...[text shortened]... sure now that I have mentioned his name there will be some anecdotes to the contrary. 😛

Oh, and we cannot forget Mr. Morphy, who had such a suprising meteoric fall from the chess world, nearly as rapid as his rise, in the year 1859, when he resigned from all serious chess...I do believe...the year after he beat Anderssen in a tourney in...Paris, France, was it?

His fall was attributed to a sort of mental illness, I thought...

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
his parents were Jewish, he himself was not, infact he was not even circumcised, and yes it does seem interesting, although i do not think it was entirely Reshevsky, but those who put up the money and called the shots, the organizers who were also Jewish that really got on his nerves!

hes immortal and was just too honest for most people!

His mother was a Jew which means he was Jewish.
A grandmaster named Rueben Fine, who was a psychiatrist, offered to treat Fisher for free. And Rueben Fine was a Jew also. Fisher declined.

Originally posted by caissad4
His mother was a Jew which means he was Jewish.
A grandmaster named Rueben Fine, who was a psychiatrist, offered to treat Fisher for free. And Rueben Fine was a Jew also. Fisher declined.

you are mistaking his biological makeup inherited from his parents with his spiritual makeup, to be a Jew is a confession of a particular faith, Fischer never confessed this faith and the fact that he remained uncircumcised indicates that his parents, or his mother at least anyhow, was Jewish in name only, not really a practicing Jew, although i have no way of confirming or denying this other than Fischers own testimony that he remained uncircumcised! to be a Jew do you not have to be circumcised on the eighth day as stipulated in the mosaic law?

Originally posted by casualdust
So he was a genius. Granted, if that makes you feel any better. He was actually happy 2700 innocent people died at the WTC, NY. The "genius" was actually happy!!! He said that in public! If this is the kinda man you adore, I truly truly truly sympathize, weep, and wail for you, I truly do, Mr. Carroble. Charlotte

America betrayed him, from a hero to a zero, yes it hurt him, cast off like an unwanted piece of redundant clothing, did it not, hounded him throughout the earth, turned him into a fugitive, infact it was America that made Fischer what he was and please i hope we shall not need to go down the road of the atrocities committed by the American government on others, the injustices still being perpetrated by the nation of Israel, that land renowned throughout the earth for its tolerance and human rights, which for some reason do not seem as well, how can i put, given the same media attention as they perhaps should, mmm, i wonder why? RIP Robert Fischer.

you really should listen to more Greenday, try American idiot, an excellent album!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
America betrayed him, from a hero to a zero, yes it hurt him, cast off like an unwanted piece of redundant clothing, did it not, hounded him throughout the earth, turned him into a fugitive, infact it was America that made Fischer what he was and please i hope we shall not need to go down the road of the atrocities committed by the American governmen ...[text shortened]... t Fischer.

you really should listen to more Greenday, try American idiot, an excellent album!

1)American Idiot is about W not all Americans.

2)What atrocities has america and their government committed?

3)I have spent quite a bit of my life in america and it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. In fact, I think people from many countries talk bad about america just because they are jealous and/or want to jump on the bandwagon.

4)You must separate the man from his chess for they are not one in the same. Because his chess was great does not make him a great man. All other things being equal, chess players are just normal people to be judged accordingly and not based on their skill in any game including chess.

5)Robert J. Fischer didn't do so much for the chess world as you seem to think he did. In fact, he was somewhat of a nuisance with his outrageous demands. Not to mention that he wasn't around in the chess world long enough to really do anything productive especially when you take into account the obsessive studying he did in his earlier years.


6)If you need a game to bookmark then bookmark my games against rhprhp. The game in which I am black has, to the best of my knowledge, and opening novelty. These are the only two games in my gameload that I will not be making a move in most every day. I will be using my full time for these games with intensive analysis at every turn and when the game wher I am black is finished I will hopefully get him/her to go over it with me and post the game with both of our comments in this very forum.

Originally posted by tomtom232
1)American Idiot is about W not all Americans.

2)What atrocities has america and their government committed?

3)I have spent quite a bit of my life in america and it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. In fact, I think people from many countries talk bad about america just because they are jealous and/or want to jump on the bandwagon.
...[text shortened]... him/her to go over it with me and post the game with both of our comments in this very forum.

tomtom, my friend i do not want to go down this road, please, we could talk about the native Americans, we could talk about the slavery issues, we could talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we could talk about napalm bombs, i don't want to really discuss any of it, this is a chess forum, stuff like this is best delt with elsewhere! please my friend, do not pursue it!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
tomtom, my friend i do not want to go down this road, please, we could talk about the native Americans, we could talk about the slavery issues, we could talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we could talk about napalm bombs, i don't want to really discuss any of it, this is a chess forum, stuff like this is best delt with elsewhere! please my friend, do not pursue it!

I agree that this Fischer discussion shouldn't really devolve into a political discussion. However, you lobbed your share of political hand grenades with your previous "America betrayed him" post. Robbie, that post really offended me, and I can't believe that it came from you. I guess I didn't know you as well as I thought I did. Oh well, I won't lose any sleep over it. 😉

Originally posted by tomtom232
1)American Idiot is about W not all Americans.

2)What atrocities has america and their government committed?

3)I have spent quite a bit of my life in america and it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. In fact, I think people from many countries talk bad about america just because they are jealous and/or want to jump on the bandwagon.
...[text shortened]... him/her to go over it with me and post the game with both of our comments in this very forum.

Oh!

tomtom232 dude,
Just google "american atrocities" and you will be amazed -however I have not the slightest intention to get into a debate over here regarding this matter;

Big Bobby was seriously derailed but still he was a helluva chessplayer. Yes, he was not productive the way Botvinnik was, but this has to do with his obsession to reveal not his thoughts under any circumstances. He simply enjoyed the fact that he could reign singlehanded in a game of perfect information, that's all.

Now regarding your games against rhprhp... Due to my quite poor English I am constantly boxed into a mental freezeframe, ever unable to state the slightest comment of shock and awe.

Originally posted by Mad Rook
I agree that this Fischer discussion shouldn't really devolve into a political discussion. However, you lobbed your share of political hand grenades with your previous "America betrayed him" post. Robbie, that post really offended me, and I can't believe that it came from you. I guess I didn't know you as well as I thought I did. Oh well, I won't lose any sleep over it. 😉

Rook, perhaps you are correct, infact you are correct, i am sorry that i offended you, really i am, this is no place for this kind of discussion, so if you will step outside we can settle this man to man, na just kidding, but if you want to 😀 , i just cannot believe that even after the man is dead that people still want to humiliate and attack his character, hes dead for goodness sake, but its not enough, they want to see him tortured, as if he wasn't tortured enough in his own lifetime, either by self or otherwise and I truly think that he felt betrayed by his own country! whether it is true or otherwise, i dunno, once again i apologize dear Rook if i have caused offense!