Internet gradings (and RHP gradings) compared to OTB.

If someone's OTB rating is 1700 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No doubt; and not worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2000 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No real doubt; and not really worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2100 & their RHP rating is 2300, they aren't necessarily using an engine.

Anyone 2400+ at any point is using an engine. No doubt; not worth arguing about

Anyone whose RHP rating rises, after the first performance plateau has been reached, by more than 200 is using an engine to achieve that improvement.

For the record, my OTB Elo is 2100 these days, down from my peak at 2280. My ICCF rating (from 2001) is 2201, down from 2350 in 1992, and from 2450 in 1982. Engines have caused the recent decline; family/career, the earlier fall.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed. You seem in to be in a very combative mood today.

Nope. Think of it as zero tolerance for nonsense. Thus, YOU will always find me combative.

Originally posted by atticus2
If someone's OTB rating is 1700 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No doubt; and not worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2000 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No real doubt; and not really worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2100 & their RHP rating is 2300, they aren't necessarily using a ...[text shortened]... from 2450 in 1982. Engines have caused the recent decline; family/career, the earlier fall.

I agree with a lot of this post.

My rating on RHP is 2096 which is lower than my current OTB rating.
I only play 2 or 3 games on RHP at any one time as that is all I can manage time wise.
I used to play corres in the pre computer days and never lost a game with white in my career.

I am finding the standard of play from my 2100
+ opponents on RHP to be amazingly high in the main, especially if they are playing many games, as I know how long it takes me to analyse positions.

(ps as far as I know I have played 2 RHP members over the board: draw v D Tebb and win against Greenpawn so I still hope to improve my RHP rating: progress is steady if very gradual so far: bit tempted to give up!)

Originally posted by atticus2
If someone's OTB rating is 1700 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No doubt; and not worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2000 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No real doubt; and not really worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2100 & their RHP rating is 2300, they aren't necessarily using a ...[text shortened]... from 2450 in 1982. Engines have caused the recent decline; family/career, the earlier fall.

It is certainly suspicious when a 1700 OTB makes RHP 2300, but I'm not completely sold that they're all engine users. I knew of a guy who was only 1800 OTB but 2400 corr before the SW engine/Internet age (back when corr was only 'postal chess'😉. Sure, there were comps that could play at that level back then, but they weren't so cheap to acquire.

As more and more people play online chess, we will have some who start online, with corr, and only later try OTB chess. It wouldn't be surprising if they couldn't get as high an OTB rating because they are not used to the time controls.

Hi Atticus2.

Very interesting points. Can you please elaborate on your following one?:

"Anyone 2400+ at any point is using an engine. No doubt; not worth arguing about."

Originally posted by RJHinds
You have been playing on here for about 3 years and are only rated about 200 points more that they started you out with. I say you need to take some of my rubbish advice and perhaps you can get it up another 200 points by this time next year. 😏

Unlike you i play the games myself.

Originally posted by atticus2
If someone's OTB rating is 1700 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No doubt; and not worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2000 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No real doubt; and not really worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2100 & their RHP rating is 2300, they aren't necessarily using a ...[text shortened]... from 2450 in 1982. Engines have caused the recent decline; family/career, the earlier fall.

I agree to most of this, but there are exceptions. Players who don't play many OTB games in a season. To get a 2200 rating otb, you firstly need to be playing strong enough competition, if you're stuck in a league of 1700 players, you're not going to get to 2200, no matter how many games you win. Sicillian smaug (who i played with in the same club team) made it to 2100 on here after a lot of study. His otb grade was around 120bcf, which is about 1600. We played in a low league and, even though he won 95% of his games, he never achieved a high grade. I actually left my club because there was no opportunity to progress. The higher teams fielded the same guys years in year out, if i lost a couple of games in a season it was enough to downgrade me season after season.

However, if i was 2200 on RHP, i'd have won 100% of my games and in the 7 years i played club chess i would have eventually broken into the top teams and had opportunity to get a decent grade. A 1700 player breaking 2300 is just plain cheating though and said player was booted from my clan 3 years ago when this became obvious and yet still plays here..

Originally posted by SwissGambit
It is certainly suspicious when a 1700 OTB makes RHP 2300, but I'm not completely sold that they're all engine users. I knew of a guy who was only 1800 OTB but 2400 corr before the SW engine/Internet age (back when corr was only 'postal chess'😉. Sure, there were comps that could play at that level back then, but they weren't so cheap to acquire.

As mo ...[text shortened]... f they couldn't get as high an OTB rating because they are not used to the time controls.

I would add that the sheer quantity of games available 24/7 also makes the ratings hard to compare.

My rating here gets inflated in part because I always seem to have 20+ games going on against players who are much lower-rated and who want to play, and I do not decline challenges. Occasionally I get nicked, but I tend to accumulate points that way. It's like playing a simul.

Even worse, as my rating inflates, draw offers when I am in worse positions tend to come more often, further protecting me from my own bad play.

I have two friends from my local OTB club who also play here, as well as two other friends with whom I have played OTB chess in the past, and we all marvel how ratings seem to be inflated here compared our "real life" ratings. We just don't take them very seriously, since they don't seem to correspond.

Back in the early 1990's my USCF CC rating was 400 points higher than my USCF OTB rating, until I switched jobs suddenly and had to regrettably resign a bunch of games all at once. I think this is consistent with SG's experience.

Originally posted by atticus2
If someone's OTB rating is 1700 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No doubt; and not worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2000 & their RHP rating is 2300, they are using an engine. No real doubt; and not really worth arguing about.

If someone's OTB rating is 2100 & their RHP rating is 2300, they aren't necessarily using a ...[text shortened]... from 2450 in 1982. Engines have caused the recent decline; family/career, the earlier fall.

What time controls do you normally play OTB when getting your regular rating?

Hi SG.

I agree with you and I too know a few lads who played C.C. before computers
whose C.C. play far exceeded their OTB play.

Was there not an American lad who played in the US champs, lost every game,
gave up OTB and became USA CC champion.
That was in the 30's/40's.

But I remember those golden olden days.
You looked at the board for days sometimes a week before making a move.
Here the super moves are coming out within minutes.

Originally posted by Kegge
Unlike you i play the games myself.

Ouch!