Is this cheating?

Originally posted by Gortron
What if I posted the game for review and then started another game with the person and they did the same opening sequence of moves?

That obviously couldn't be called cheating.

It doesn't matter really, I did something different in the second game and I am going to win. I just thought the question was interesting.

I doubt any kind of a technicality could save you. if it looks like cheating, it is.

What is all this talk of cheating for talking (or asking anaysis) on a completed game? My God, there are people using databases, books, engines, computer games, hookers on the street corners.... there is no real difference because in ever instance, someone is getting screwed. As is was explained to me, "as long as you make the decision as to what moves to make, it is all ok". I personally think it is a crock, but that was the response. So why is analysis any different? I am not trying to stir up anything here, but, let's call it what is is. That being said, what are the stakes? Money, loss of life? A wound to the ego and some rating points at best. It would be different if there were no outside avenues or assistance available in a face to face tournament, but it is not. I'll step down and allow the rock hurling to begin.

Originally posted by Phlabibit
Someone is going to notice you have a game in the same position (happens all the time) and call someone a cheat. Try and deny you are cheating since you did ask about the position.

It will be very hard to defend yourself since this position is in an existing game.

The analysis should have been done before the line was followed again.

[b]Edit N in another game. You are trying to go around a rule to get advice in an existing game.

P-[/b]

With all these French Defense threads, I feel like a lot of us are probably cheating then. I have a lot of games still in the openings, and we've been talking about prefered lines and ideas in the French, which most of us talking use religiously. I'm sure some of the positions posted match games in progress for one or more of us. Should I not participate or post in these threads until I'm sure that of my 70ish games, none of the many French Defenses (about half) are matching any of the positions discussed?

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
With all these French Defense threads, I feel like a lot of us are probably cheating then. I have a lot of games still in the openings, and we've been talking about prefered lines and ideas in the French, which most of us talking use religiously. I'm sure some of the positions posted match games in progress for one or more of us. Should I not partic ...[text shortened]... s, none of the many French Defenses (about half) are matching any of the positions discussed?

beautiful. People just need to give it a break. No one is cheating by trying to learn.

Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
With all these French Defense threads, I feel like a lot of us are probably cheating then. I have a lot of games still in the openings, and we've been talking about prefered lines and ideas in the French, which most of us talking use religiously. I'm sure some of the positions posted match games in progress for one or more of us. Should I not partic ...[text shortened]... s, none of the many French Defenses (about half) are matching any of the positions discussed?

simple. you can discuss the opening, but you can't discuss your games.

Originally posted by wormwood
simple. you can discuss the opening, but you can't discuss your games.

pardon my rudeness, but who's to say when exactly an 'opening' becomes a 'game'

Originally posted by ih8sens
pardon my rudeness, but who's to say when exactly an 'opening' becomes a 'game'

Once the first move is made?

Originally posted by shortcircuit
Once the first move is made?

seems odd to me that people are so worried about talking about chess moves in a chess forum then. if we can't talk about chess, what can we talk about? Seems to me like everyone wants to have the 'glory' of having someone else banned for an innocent question.

Originally posted by ih8sens
seems odd to me that people are so worried about talking about chess moves in a chess forum then. if we can't talk about chess, what can we talk about? Seems to me like everyone wants to have the 'glory' of having someone else banned for an innocent question.

then you don't understand the problem. (you're not the first one, this same discussion has happened dozens of times even during my 1½ years on rhp.)

once again, you can talk about chess, but you can't discuss games in progress.

Originally posted by wormwood

once again, you can talk about chess, but you can't discuss games in progress.[/b]

Aren't you ultimately discussing a game that has already passed? and then coincidentally talking about one in progress at the same time???

If I talked about a famous match on here between two grandmasters, and then a few hours later I end up in the same position, did I cheat?

I think it comes down to motive, and in the example in this thread, there is no intention to cheat, the only problem is coincidence.

Innocent until proven guilty. If there's a question of intent, no one should be banned.

Originally posted by ih8sens
Aren't you ultimately discussing a game that has already passed? and then coincidentally talking about one in progress at the same time???

If I talked about a famous match on here between two grandmasters, and then a few hours later I end up in the same position, did I cheat?

I think it comes down to motive, and in the example in this thread, there is ...[text shortened]...

Innocent until proven guilty. If there's a question of intent, no one should be banned.

Please don't ban me. 😕

Ha.

Originally posted by ih8sens
Aren't you ultimately discussing a game that has already passed? and then coincidentally talking about one in progress at the same time???

If I talked about a famous match on here between two grandmasters, and then a few hours later I end up in the same position, did I cheat?

I think it comes down to motive, and in the example in this thread, there is ...[text shortened]...

Innocent until proven guilty. If there's a question of intent, no one should be banned.

if you talk about the master game first, you're following that game in your own game. which is perfectly okay.

if you talk about the master game when you've already started a similar game, you're certainly risking it. if you then ask about that game you're clearly violating 3b, outside assistance. same goes to fritzing that master game while you 'happen to be' in an identical position.

you can of course read/follow discussion as much as you can find on the game, but you can't ask about it. neither can you start a discussion about the game, and observe others discussing it, as you'd be clearly fishing.

all this is pretty obvious, and only someone trying to bend the rules would do these things.

Yah I see your point, I just think people treat innocent questions pretty harshly. I know, I wanted to start a thread on a variation of the Shilling gambit, but I just started a game that has turned into the exact variation I was wanting to suggest to people. Bit of a pain, I have to wait a whole 2 hours to make the thread now 😉.

I've asked this before in another thread.

Its very borderline but let me give a more realistic example.

I play a lot of Morra Gambits. I have finished 50 and I have 20 in progress. I analyse those 50 completed games on Fritz which finds a number of improvements. There was never any intention to cheat and 20 similar games are on going.

A few moves later a position comes up when we finally get out of book so I check my database and find a few with a position that matched. I also discover Fritz found me a better line so I play it. Am I cheating?

This analysis was not done with a current game in mind - it is coincidental but with 20 games on the go in the same line a match is inevitable.

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
...A few moves later a position comes up when we finally get out of book so I check my database and find a few with a position that matched. I also discover Fritz found me a better line so I play it. Am I cheating?...

theoretically speaking, I believe so. it has been stated before that following a computer generated game will be looked at as cheating. I can't see a fundamental difference if you compare that to following fritzed improvements from db lines.

however, in practice such a match would be very rare, and even then probably counts for only one move or so. which makes it practically invisible to statistical analysis, and hardly affects the outcome of the game. but any such fritzed move will give you a positive engine move match, thus risking it.