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  1. 12 Oct '09 17:28 / 2 edits
    Our friend Macpo recently posted some of his games
    with a view to discussion, i cannot believe that no one
    has responded with some form of illumination.

    For example here is the first one, with black to play.
    i have looked at it for ages and cannot find out
    what is the deal, thus i appeal to the forum to
    help in this dilemma

    i suppose the most obvious is the exchange sacrifice,
    Rxf3 which leads to gxf3, bxh3 opening up the king position,
    but i am not convinced that this is good for black because
    white can make a sacrifice of his own, after Kh2 bishop
    moves and Nxc5 looks strong for after dxc5 the pawn can
    be pushed attacking the pinned knight.

    if anyone can help then please do so for it is
    driving me crazy!

  2. 12 Oct '09 17:56
    I think you are talking about Thread 120250. I shall give a look when I get a chance.
  3. 12 Oct '09 18:19
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Our friend Macpo recently posted some of his games
    with a view to discussion, i cannot believe that no one
    has responded with some form of illumination.
    I didn't know quite what to make of his post. First, he makes us find the sacrifices. Then he states, "Not all of them were relevant". Maybe the others felt the same way?
  4. 12 Oct '09 18:21
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    I didn't know quite what to make of his post. First, he makes us find the sacrifices. Then he states, "Not all of them were relevant". Maybe the others felt the same way?
    yes, it excellent, its almost like those posts Korch used to make, evaluate this position. i hope to take them one at a time, for positional sacrifices surely are the ultimate in strategic understanding.
  5. 12 Oct '09 18:59
    I also couldn't make sense of it but was too ashamed to admit it in the post
  6. 12 Oct '09 19:05
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Our friend Macpo recently posted some of his games
    with a view to discussion, i cannot believe that no one
    has responded with some form of illumination.

    For example here is the first one, with black to play.
    i have looked at it for ages and cannot find out
    what is the deal, thus i appeal to the forum to
    help in this dilemma

    i suppo ...[text shortened]... driving me crazy!

    [fen]r2q2k1/p2bn1bp/3p2p1/2pPprB1/4N3/5N1P/PP1Q1PP1/R3R1K1 b - - 0 16[/fen]
    After Kh2, black can play Qd7 to protect the bishop and put the Q on the light squares which keeps the attack going. Did you follow that line?
  7. 12 Oct '09 19:20
    Originally posted by ParShooter
    After Kh2, black can play Qd7 to protect the bishop and put the Q on the light squares which keeps the attack going. Did you follow that line?
    I don't think Black has anything after ...Qd7 BxNe7. I don't see any place for the black queen to go to continue the attack.
  8. 12 Oct '09 19:38 / 3 edits
    Thanks for this answer dear Robbie!


    In fact, you're right: this one was not completely relevant (Fritz confirms: around -1 after the sacrifice), as Kh2 is pretty strong. Though I am not sure it was that bad (the ignorant Fritz underestimates my position), given that I exchange a rook against: a Knight, one pawn, destruction of king side, and double pawns on a semi open file... on which my rook will soon come.

    though, in the actual game, my opponent didn't play that... I was striken by how many times people just did not answer rightly to this kind of sacrifices...

    here is the whole game (actually it was quite dirty, on both sides):




    For my other post: maybe I did it the wrong way, cause people didn't answer so much. I just wanted people to exercise their eye to positional sacrifice, as it is usually not considered, though it definitely helps you in some situations; and generally speaking having this in mind seriously increases valuable possibilities.
    of course, the idea is not that you find the trick cause this is not tactical (maybe for one though); but that you manage to evaluate properly the value of the sacrifice, in positions where it is likely to be relevant...

    If you have any suggestion to improve presentation! maybe I should have put the sacrifice in the pgn, so that you can effectively judge it...

    PS: and please to feel ashamed! you'd better call me names if you don't get the point
  9. 12 Oct '09 19:50
    Originally posted by Macpo
    Thanks for this answer dear Robbie!


    In fact, you're right: this one was not completely relevant (Fritz confirms: around -1 after the sacrifice), as Kh2 is pretty strong. Though I am not sure it was that bad (the ignorant Fritz underestimates my position), given that I exchange a rook against: a Knight, one pawn, destruction of king side, and double pawns ...[text shortened]... el ashamed! you'd better call me names if you don't get the point
    actually Macpo, its the way of thinking that is so amazing, for us noobs we are still stuck in the process of i take, he takes, that looks ok, ill try that, but to sacrifice with positional considerations in mind, is pure Reti! i get a weakened King position, doubled pawns on a semi open file etc, etc.

    as for presentation, greenpawn gave some great hints, try to keep the text in columnar form, like a newspaper and provide diagrams, with the game at the end.

    Apart from that. excellent stuff!
  10. 12 Oct '09 19:53
    Originally posted by Goshen
    I also couldn't make sense of it but was too ashamed to admit it in the post
    no need of shame Goshen my friend, we are all learning and who is there among us that does not make mistakes!
  11. 12 Oct '09 20:02
    ok thanks! (though it's not so complicated; but unfortunately, some people keep repeating "only tactics until you're grandmaster" which is completely stupid...)

    one question before I make things look better: do you know how to get fens from rhp (cause writing them is somewhat boring...)
  12. 12 Oct '09 20:07
    Originally posted by Macpo
    ok thanks! (though it's not so complicated; but unfortunately, some people keep repeating "only tactics until you're grandmaster" which is completely stupid...)

    one question before I make things look better: do you know how to get fens from rhp (cause writing them is somewhat boring...)
    i think there is an official RHP diagram maker, but i could be wrong, failing that here is a site that lets you create fen diagrams, easy.

    http://chessimg.com/

    perhaps we can consider some of the other positions that you posted, and give our thoughts ?
  13. 12 Oct '09 20:10 / 2 edits
    ok finally I give them with a few moves more, not with fens, but so that everybody can see what the "sacrifice" (good or bad) is...

    POSITIONAL SACRIFICES RELOADED

    The objective is that you 1. find them; 2. appreciate them and congratulate me 3. give me your opinion on them. Not all of them were relevant; the idea is to improve your and my tastes of what is good and what is bad positional sacrifice … Critiques welcome !



    1. A classical one, to start. (probably irrelevant though: see previous posts)




    2. One I found really exciting (though I then made mistakes...)





    3. this one is probably the most dubious, but it surprisingly worked... it's not the cleanest one neither, for it's a two tempi sacrifice...





    4. same game, a bit later, more classical I guess:





    5. this one is a "passive" (though conscious and voluntary) sacrifice...



    6. I am not sure this passive one was completely voluntary
    Should White take the Bishop, though? (I am black)




    7. is this one still a strategic sacrifice? (this one you have to find it &#61514




    8. The price of initiative...



    And I can give the whole games, maybe a bit later, just for fun…
    or, if it does not work, go to fens...
  14. 12 Oct '09 20:16 / 1 edit
    ok, what about this one, look a juicy rook in the corner,
    but our queen is attacked. i think it must be the
    weakness of the light squares, queenside.
    it looks similar to the najdorf and there are
    many games in which white sacrifices a knight
    and gets passed pawns in return

  15. 12 Oct '09 20:25
    This is Morphy like, opening up the uncastled King position,
    the queen is coming to e4 with check, the kingside is in ruins,
    only a crazy Latvian Gmabit player would consider playing under such circumstances!