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  1. 22 Jan '13 20:31 / 2 edits
    Not often you see this opening on the top flight boards.

    Y. Hou - M.Carlsen, Tata Steel 2013

  2. Standard member kingshill
    Mr Ring Rusty
    22 Jan '13 23:13
    Didn't Magnus play the Ponz in a earlier round..?

    (Haven't been following that closely other than Anands brilliant win and Magnus' grind in the last round)
  3. 23 Jan '13 13:08
    Just seen youtube analysis by Carlsen on the above game.

    YouTube

    He says he was surprised to see 3.c3 and later admits that his 47...b5 here.


    Was a blunder. 47...b5 48. Qxa5 Qd1+ 49. Qe1 The move he missed.
    He thought he was getting the g-pawn with a check.

    Hi Kingshill.

    You are correct. Round 4. Carlsen played it as White and won.

    M.Carlsen - P.Harikrishna, Tata Steel 2013

  4. 23 Jan '13 13:21
    Cue a hike in sales for any opening novella on the Ponziani!
  5. 23 Jan '13 13:25 / 1 edit
    100% correct Burnsider.

    Cannot wait for him to trot out a Latvian Gambit. Then for once I may
    have better idea what is going on.
  6. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    23 Jan '13 17:59
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Just seen youtube analysis by Carlsen on the above game.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X27cvLgwiWQ

    He says he was surprised to see 3.c3 and later admits that his 47...b5 here.

    [fen]8/1kp5/1p6/p2q4/Q5P1/8/5P2/5K2 b - - 0 47[/fen]
    Was a blunder. 47...b5 48. Qxa5 Qd1+ 49. Qe1 The move he missed.
    He thought he was getting the g-pawn with a check. ...[text shortened]... Nb4 Qd6+ 45. Kh1 Qd1+ 46. Qg1 Qd6 47. Nd5 Rf8 48. Qd4 Kh8 49. Rc8 Bc6[/pgn]
    Black played the inferior defensive opening line in both of these games. The correct line for black is as follows:

  7. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    23 Jan '13 18:04 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Black played the inferior defensive opening line in both of these games. The correct line for black is as follows:

    [pgn]
    1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 d5 {not 3...Nf6}
    [/pgn]
    http://tinyurl.com/SorryRJH
  8. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    23 Jan '13 18:48
    The following is the first game I played against the Ponziani opening on RHP. This was the 16th game I finished and I was still playing without aids of opening books or the RHP analyze board. However, I managed to win against a higher rated opponent at the time. At the end of this game my rating went up to 1582 and his went down to 1645. I played this game like I was playing against the Guioco Piano, which I had studied before I stopped playing chess in 1982.


    [Event "Open invite"]
    [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2011.01.31"]
    [EndDate "2011.02.28"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Genghis Khan1162"]
    [Black "RJHinds"]
    [WhiteRating "1645"]
    [BlackRating "1582"]
    [WhiteElo "1645"]
    [BlackElo "1582"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [GameId "8145928"]


  9. 23 Jan '13 19:00
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The following is the first game I played against the Ponziani opening on RHP. This was the 16th game I finished and I was still playing without aids of opening books or the RHP analyze board. However, I managed to win against a higher rated opponent at the time. At the end of this game my rating went up to 1582 and his went down to 1645. I played this ga ...[text shortened]... 46. Nc7xd5 Ra3a1 47. Nd5b6 a3 48. Nb6d5 a2 49. Nd5b4 Ra1h1 0-1
    [/pgn]
    Who knew the idea of c3 was to play d4? !!! 😲
  10. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    23 Jan '13 19:21
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    Who knew the idea of c3 was to play d4? !!! 😲
    Yes, I believed that was coming. Did you see how I handled it? After all I am only a 1500 player OTB and I was playing that game like an OTB game without the clock and the requirement to record my moves. I am not a Magnus Carlsen and, thank God, neither was my opponent. 😏
  11. 23 Jan '13 21:00
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Yes, I believed that was coming. Did you see how I handled it? After all I am only a 1500 player OTB and I was playing that game like an OTB game without the clock and the requirement to record my moves. I am not a Magnus Carlsen and, thank God, neither was my opponent. 😏
    OK ... I will give the devil his due. It was a nice patient maneuvering game. You didn't overract and played some nice positional chess. As long as black doesn't go overboard in the open games and plays good sound moves, he should be able to hold equailty and eventually get in his own shots (if the opportunity presents itself). That's also nice finish. Good Game
  12. 23 Jan '13 21:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Black played the inferior defensive opening line in both of these games. The correct line for black is as follows:

    [pgn]
    1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 d5 {not 3...Nf6}
    [/pgn]
    Are you able to explain why 3...d5 is better than 3...Nf6? Evaluation of your engine or did you read Wikipedia?
  13. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    23 Jan '13 23:19
    Originally posted by Pacifique
    Are you able to explain why 3...d5 is better than 3...Nf6? Evaluation of your engine or did you read Wikipedia?
    YouTube
  14. 23 Jan '13 23:54


    Black has a lot of choices because c3 doesn't put immediate pressure on black.

    RJ's 3. ... Bc5 may be one of the worst, because it plays right into white's hands (losing time in the process).

    I have tried many moves against the Ponziani over the years.

    3. ... d5



    This is a theoritical line. I believe that it is the recommendation in the Emms book Play The Open Games As Black. Black must learn to meet exd5, Bb5, and Qa4. Black doesn't have any real problems, but I personally didn't like the positions it led to as much.

    3. ... Nf6


    This is the other main recommendation (including by Marin in his book on 1. ...e5).
    3. ... Nf6 can lead to closed positional maneuvering, but there are chances for black. Marin introduced an interesting variation where black gets an open h file (and all sorts of Rh4 ideas pop up for black.)

    I think it goes like this:



    I have tried more rare variations against the Ponziani too.

    3. ... f5


    When I want the initiative or an attempt at a quick win, I go for f5. It's like a Latvian Gambit where c3 doesn't really help white. White may get an edge, theoretically, but it's a good fighting move.

    3. ...d6


    This is good for a good closed battle as well. 4.Bb5 can go into a Ruy Lopez Steinitz (but with a pawn on c3). With d6, black just plays a solid move and leaves most of theory. With patient play, black will get chances to outplay white in the late middlegame or endgame. 4.d4 Bd7 is usually how I follow up.



    Bd7 just keeps the queens on, so that black can have more chances later.

    I imagine 3. ... Qe7



    would also be playable. Black follows up with g6. The good thing is that white no longer has Nc3 and Nd5.

    The Ponziani just lets up the pressure to early, to lead to a forced advantage in my opinion.
  15. 24 Jan '13 00:01
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Just seen youtube analysis by Carlsen on the above game.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X27cvLgwiWQ

    He says he was surprised to see 3.c3 and later admits that his 47...b5 here.

    [fen]8/1kp5/1p6/p2q4/Q5P1/8/5P2/5K2 b - - 0 47[/fen]
    Was a blunder. 47...b5 48. Qxa5 Qd1+ 49. Qe1 The move he missed.
    He thought he was getting the g-pawn with a check. ...[text shortened]... Nb4 Qd6+ 45. Kh1 Qd1+ 46. Qg1 Qd6 47. Nd5 Rf8 48. Qd4 Kh8 49. Rc8 Bc6[/pgn]
    Interesting ... This is really a Two Knights Modern Variation with an extra move for white.




    Two Knights after move 8


    Carlsen after move 8

    He gained c3 by not losing time with Bc4-Bb5. Technically, its a Ponziani, but it really isn't.