Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. 15 Aug '11 22:22
    How can one be sure when playing people with phenomenal records that they are playing themselves and they are not mythological beasts i.e. centaurs or engines? If for arguments sake your opponent has a 95% record and they have many, many games in progress, how can you be sure they are not receiving help?
  2. Standard member Exuma
    Anansi
    15 Aug '11 22:29
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test
  3. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    16 Aug '11 02:11
    The only player with a "phenomenal" record in your games history is..... you.
  4. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    16 Aug '11 02:39
    Originally posted by kopatov
    How can one be sure when playing people with phenomenal records that they are playing themselves and they are not mythological beasts i.e. centaurs or engines? If for arguments sake your opponent has a 95% record and they have many, many games in progress, how can you be sure they are not receiving help?
    Look for players who are unbeaten.
  5. 16 Aug '11 03:15 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ChessPraxis
    Look for players who are unbeaten.
    Indeed, an unbeaten player, of, say, 20 or more games, is, in my humble opinion, let us say, of doubtful veracity...

    Of course, the persistent, and useless to ask, question naturally arises: Why do they cheat? I mean, what is the benefit?

    Honestly (and I here base my answer upon my masters in psychology and many years in the field), these people have various personality disorders based upon poor self-image and a warped view of reality.

    In the present context of this type of web-site, the best solution is simply to be aware of the record of who you play and decide accordingly.
  6. 16 Aug '11 05:24
    Originally posted by Eternal Student
    Indeed, an unbeaten player, of, say, 20 or more games, is, in my humble opinion, let us say, of doubtful veracity...
    Pfooey.... there ARE strong players here, and to accuse them of cheating, sight unseen and with absolutely NO evidence to support the accusation, is highly inappropriate and improper.

    Scores of players have been banned from this site for engine use, and if at any time any reasonable suspicion can be raised against a player, it is only necessary to report them for suspected engine use so that the sysops can run the games in question through whatever testing routine they use to detect chess engines.
  7. 16 Aug '11 06:23
    Originally posted by Gambiteer
    Pfooey.... there ARE strong players here, and to accuse them of cheating, sight unseen and with absolutely NO evidence to support the accusation, is highly inappropriate and improper.

    Scores of players have been banned from this site for engine use, and if at any time any reasonable suspicion can be raised against a player, it is only necessary to repor ...[text shortened]... can run the games in question through whatever testing routine they use to detect chess engines.
    Nobody has accused anyone of anything, (yet) but are you telling me that potentially all of the players on the first few pages of the rating list, are there because of their own "hard work"?
  8. 16 Aug '11 06:39
    Who cares really? About ratings...about placements....about chess engines?
    I think the reason why most people are here is to play, enjoy and learn chess. Those who seek competition and to ascend the ladder of peer acceptance, well lets not talk about them 🙂

    In my opinion, any chess game is valuable. So what if you lose from a guy with 1200 rating that uses a chess engine? I welcome those games. Every lost game is an opportunity to learn. No bad feelings if it is a human or a machine.

    You shouldn't take ratings too literal anyway and I think its wrong to pursue a higher rating as a goal. Instead one should try to get better at chess and an engine game is a good oportunity.

    But that's just me. 🙂
  9. 16 Aug '11 07:25
    Originally posted by Gambiteer
    Pfooey.... there ARE strong players here, and to accuse them of cheating, sight unseen and with absolutely NO evidence to support the accusation, is highly inappropriate and improper.

    Scores of players have been banned from this site for engine use, and if at any time any reasonable suspicion can be raised against a player, it is only necessary to repor ...[text shortened]... can run the games in question through whatever testing routine they use to detect chess engines.
    As another member remarked, I am accusing no one - rather I am merely making a general comment and offering general advice based on what, I take, to be common precautions in this type of situation.
  10. Subscriber Ragwort
    Ex Duris Gloria
    16 Aug '11 14:36
    Originally posted by kopatov
    How can one be sure when playing people with phenomenal records that they are playing themselves and they are not mythological beasts i.e. centaurs or engines? If for arguments sake your opponent has a 95% record and they have many, many games in progress, how can you be sure they are not receiving help?
    Every so often, someone creates an RHP account and within a few days is spouting off about likely engine use amongst top rated players on this (and other) sites. I don't know why this happens. Perhaps there is nothing on TV, or they would like to provoke a reaction from the (C) players. Perhaps they are a clone account wishing to provoke a storm against the site owners. Perhaps they are engine users themselves trying to goad the site administrators and forum contributors.

    The sad fact is that if you play on line chess on any site, at any time control, at any rating level you will meet "identities" that will consult a computer engine for one, more, or all their moves.

    At present on the web I have read that RHP is known as a site with "prevalent" engine use and this situation is likely to worsen given the recent "clear out" at chess.com with "identities" likely to migrate. I hope RHP will respond to this but I know there are many here who doubt their ability to do so.

    If you play on line you have to assess how likely at your level you are to meet engine users all or most of the time. At the IECG LSS server, which allows engine use in most tournaments, it is somewhere around the 1000-1200 rating mark. At ICCF from about 1750 upwards. Here? Do some analysis yourself...

    I analyzed one game here that interested me because of the opening. Player A who has all but been openly accused on this forum lost to Player B. After the opening B played a move I thought had been regarded as dubious by "theory". The free TOGA/FRUIT engine then listed every one of A's moves to the end of the game as 1st choice after 45 seconds and all but three of B's moves as first choice, until the engine was allowed to run for five minutes when it reassessed the choice. Whilst I can't rule out that the game was the result of deep pre game preparation given the opening involved, I can say that there appears, on the face of it, to have been Silicon involvement. Player A is still here, Player B left the site unbanned and returned, rather obviously under a new ID and carries on playing at around the 1900-2000 level. Players with a published OTB rating lower than mine have ascended blissfully to page one, and then had an army of friends to cry "foul" when they have been booted.

    You have to decide if such a site is "worth playing on" for you.

    Your integrity and love for the game will dictate your actions thereafter:

    1. Can't beat them join them. (as morally bankrupt as it is understandable)
    2. Find a site where suspects are booted quickly (you will still encounter cheaters who have not been caught yet and most sites don't live up to their anti cheater claims)
    3. Play "advanced chess" on a relatively level playing field like ICCF. (It's a different game but at least it is almost fair)
    4. Ignore the issue of computer use which now pervades the game at all levels including the pre game preparation stages at OTB, and chess literature in general and enjoy playing your game, how you want to, on any or all of these sites. (Pragmatic Approach)
    5. Play as a human on computer only sites and be banned for blundering (yes, it happens)
    6. Give up the on-line/CC chess experience as many have, and join your local OTB club.

    If they are like the one's I belong to new members are always welcome because their subs help guarantee survival. One of the ones I belong to would not exist if it was not for the junior section holding up the Adults financially. You can do this anyway even if you choose options 1-5 🙂

    Most players realize the risk, and will accept the fact that if they are strong enough to rise through the ranks without computer assistance they will increasingly encounter "users", even if they are the "users" who are trying to keep match up rates below certain thresholds by whatever strategy they have devised for so doing. On sites where computer use breaks the terms of service players will report suspects to Admin. Admin's response or lack thereof will have a marketing effect, and will ripple through the various chess fora on the web. The subsequent "reviews" for want of a better word will guide players as to whether they wish to spend money or time on the site.

    Sadly again, you are not pointing out anything new with your innuendo. I really don't think the majority here are that naive as not to realize what goes on. It is unlikely that anyone will see your motives for posting as anything other than mischievous at best.

    There is a system here for reporting suspects with evidence. If you are really that new to RHP and don't know look it up or ask for help...
  11. 16 Aug '11 14:58
    All good advice from Ragwort.
  12. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    16 Aug '11 15:15
    rec'd.
  13. 16 Aug '11 15:42
    You'll always be safe playing me. I have no idea what a chess engine is or how to use one.
  14. 16 Aug '11 16:03
    Originally posted by SmittyTime
    You'll always be safe playing me. I have no idea what a chess engine is or how to use one.
    http://www.quarkchess.de/pepito/
  15. 16 Aug '11 16:05
    Originally posted by SmittyTime
    You'll always be safe playing me. I have no idea what a chess engine is or how to use one.
    Not that difficult:

    1. Insert the key
    2. Turn the key clockwise
    3. Turn on the sat-nav
    4. Type in your destination
    5. After some calculation, it will tell you how to move.

    ;-)