Only Chess
19 Aug 08
20 Aug 08
Originally posted by Fat LadyHow can one possibly identify a cheat?
Don't know who you'd be telling. Everyone knew he was a cheat.
If a software suggests the best possible move and if one comes up with the same move with his/her analysis, will that person be branded as a cheat?
I am wondering how...!!!
20 Aug 08
Originally posted by ram1977If a user has above a 95% matchup to an engine, it's pretty obvious that they're cheating. I think (not sure) that the 15% or so of moves of top players in CC that do NOT match an engine's pick are actually better than the engine's.
How can one possibly identify a cheat?
If a software suggests the best possible move and if one comes up with the same move with his/her analysis, will that person be branded as a cheat?
I am wondering how...!!!
20 Aug 08
Originally posted by Fat LadyActually, I WAS telling everyone, PM'd my opinion to several dudes, based on what I saw in his profile chart and the level of games he was playing, very few upper ranks, a lot of 1300 players and so forth.
Don't know who you'd be telling. Everyone knew he was a cheat.
20 Aug 08
1 edit
Originally posted by ram1977It takes a bit of analysis, like you could be using fritz on a 500 Mhz single CPU machine and it will come up with certain moves or you could be using shredder on an 8 CPU monster number cruncher. They will give quite different moves but you have to analyze the same game using both settings before you can say anything about those two, whether a certain game has a series of moves that matches the exact configuration. So it's not a quicky kind of thing. There are dozens of progs out there and a lot of configurations to put each program on so I am suprised they can find a match at all.
How can one possibly identify a cheat?
If a software suggests the best possible move and if one comes up with the same move with his/her analysis, will that person be branded as a cheat?
I am wondering how...!!!
For comparison, take a look at my own profile chart, it's humpy as a camel, I have won 340 games and lost 140 or so. When you look at the cheaters the lines are like almost straight across. Some dudes start out with a bunch of games at like 1400 or something, then they switch over to programs and all of a sudden, their rating goes out the ceiling, so a jagged beginning set of lines on a chart, then a bunch of win win win win win kind of thing has to make you suspicious.
Conversely, if the dude started out using a prog, his profile will be like a master, will go up to max out at some high number and then suppose he gets a change of heart or his prog dies, and he tries to play the games himself, all of a sudden his rating goes way down, that is also a clue. Just looking at a profile can give you a heads up about the probability of the dude using an engine.
20 Aug 08
Originally posted by sonhouseI think Fat Lady identified Seadevil as a cheat long before anyone else, seeing as he knew who he really was OTB. I recollect FL telling me about Seadevil well over 12 months ago.
Actually, I WAS telling everyone, PM'd my opinion to several dudes, based on what I saw in his profile chart and the level of games he was playing, very few upper ranks, a lot of 1300 players and so forth.
20 Aug 08
1 edit
Who'd have thought eh..?
cludi vs seadevil.
Engine vs engine.
I remember being rather *ahem* cynical about this game a while back & several apologists saying words along the lines of "oh yes it's all quite straightforward to a good player with long time controls".
😀😉😀
20 Aug 08
Originally posted by SquelchbelchSo this game was some kind of engine vs engine?
Who'd have thought eh..?
cludi vs seadevil.
Engine vs engine.
[GameId "2580860"]
I remember being rather *ahem* cynical about this game a while back & several apologists saying words along the lines of "oh yes it's all quite straightforward to a good player with long time controls".
Please tell me, what is it with this game that make it suspicios enginge game?
When I play people way higher my own rating, OTB or CC, I don't understand their moves sometimes, but to suspect that they're using an engine...? Who am I to be the judge of that?
20 Aug 08
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasI don't know about the match-up figures but Black allows White to get 2 queens on the board first, but has the tactics all under control & forces the win anyway.
So this game was some kind of engine vs engine?
Please tell me, what is it with this game that make it suspicios enginge game?
When I play people way higher my own rating, OTB or CC, I don't understand their moves sometimes, but to suspect that they're using an engine...? Who am I to be the judge of that?
Perhaps you're right & both guys who are now banned for engine use both made some sort of gentleman's agreement not to use their engines in that game, but judging from Seadevil's abysmal performance at the British Championships & cludi's jump before I'm pushed antics, I think this is rather unlikely.
20 Aug 08
Originally posted by FabianFnasHere is the position after 81.Kf2
Please tell me, what is it with this game that make it suspicious engine game?
Look at it carefully. Black is a piece up, but White is just two moves from queening and additionally is threatening to capture Black's extra piece with check. Luckily Black can bail out with a perpetual check.
But instead, Black plays 81. ... Qd5, allowing White to queen two moves before him. He has to accurately calculate that White has no way to checkmate him with his two queens and that eventually his king will find safety and his extra bishop will win the day. You'd have to be a very strong player (which seadevil isn't) to even consider this, let alone have faith that your calculations are correct.
20 Aug 08
Originally posted by Fat LadyI can see that he did a curious move after your description. But then, he has a rating of 2400+, his moves are very deep.
Here is the position after 81.Kf2
[fen]8/1k1b1Q2/1p2p1P1/6q1/1P1p4/5P2/5K2/8[/fen]
Look at it carefully. Black is a piece up, but White is just two moves from queening and additionally is threatening to capture Black's extra piece with check. Luckily Black can bail out with a perpetual check.
But instead, Black plays 81. ... Qd5, allowing White to qu ...[text shortened]... adevil isn't) to even consider this, let alone have faith that your calculations are correct.
What should he do as a natural move in his rating level? I would resign myself, bishop or no bishop...