Novice reply to Sicilian

yes, i must get rating up so you will accept challenge. this wont take very long. if i win every game i will be in your range

Ok lemme play through a likely line & someone can tell me better play for white.

So:
1.e4...c5
2.Nf3...Nc6
3.Bc4?...e6 (open diagonals, threatening d5)

Then
4.d4...d5
5.exd5...exd5
6.Bb5...Bd7
7.0-0...Be7
8.dxc5...Bxc5
9.Re1+...N(g)e7
10.Nc3...a6
11.Ba4
or maybe after
11.Bxc6 then 11...bxc6 looking good either way for black, for instance:

edit: Nevermind

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
[b]In many games when I've played the Sicilian (maybe even 1/3 or so) my opponent plays 2.Bc4
Is this often encountered by others & also how would the more experienced 1...c5 players counter it?

Hi, first post. I see this move every other sicilian I play, and I usually just go Nc6 as usual. If my opponent brings the queen out on F then I'll play the e6. Can't see any other reason for 1200-1400 rated players (the ones who use it) to make that move. I think it's just a quick chance for a trap without much risk. Thanks for the post, though, I'm interested to hear what people who use it have to say.

yes it happens, but in case if the opponet watta grab your knight, grab his bishop

I disagree with most of what's been said. You do see 2. Bc4 in master games, you just have to go back to the 19th century to find most of the games, but according to my database it was played in Rasik, V (2461) vs Smirin, I (2670) in 2003, and has occurred enough other times not to be dismissed purely as a curiosity.

The problem with the move for white is that in closed Sicilians the bishop is better on g2, from where it can support e4. If you see 2. Bc4 as black then you want to be planning e6 in the next two or three moves, and it shouldn't pose any difficulties. The theory seems to say that Black has a path to equality, this doesn't make the move bad - it just means that white has to put up with an even game. OTB a master strength player will use it to avoid prepared lines. Against a sufficiently "book only" opponent at our level it could even be more effective than any of the more modern scientific attacks your opponent knows backwards. White is not left at a disadvantage; the bishop ends up there in plenty of the open lines anyway, so there is the danger of your opponent unexpectedly transposing into some favorable open line.

If your opponent does something unusual your response should be caution, not gleeful joy at your superior knowledge of openings - I have long and bitter experience of defeat to non-standard moves I didn't take seriously enough...

Thank you DT!

Equality when, with accurate play between players of equal standing, black should be able to dominate the center & force white to lose a tempo early on?

2.Bc4 looks like a waste of time. An example of a line where black plays an early e6 & white can maintain any kind of control after 2.Bc4 would be fascinating to see.

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
Equality when, with accurate play between players of equal standing, black should be able to dominate the center & force white to lose a tempo early on?

2.Bc4 looks like a waste of time. An example of a line where black plays an early e6 & white can maintain any kind of control after 2.Bc4 would be fascinating to see.

I don't think that black can dominate the centre with correct play from white. Also, think about other openings; in the main line of the closed Ruy Lopez/Spanish white has to relocate that bishop three times but white is regarded as having a solid advantage due to the centre. The line of play given in MCO (Ed 14, p. 351 - Sicilian Defence, Unusual Second Moves, Col. 6 footnote r [I never said it was popular...]) ends with an equals sign using the game McDonnell-Burns London 1862 as it's authority. Do you know of an improvement for black?

Originally posted by DeepThought
I don't think that black can dominate the centre with correct play from white. Also, think about other openings; in the main line of the closed Ruy Lopez/Spanish white has to relocate that bishop three times but white is regarded as having a solid advantage due to the centre. The line of play given in MCO (Ed 14, p. 351 - Sicilian Defence, Unusual Seco ...[text shortened]... e game McDonnell-Burns London 1862 as it's authority. Do you know of an improvement for black?

Fancy an unrated thematic:
1.e4...c5
2.Bc4
(you are currently set to max 20 games)

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
Fancy an unrated thematic:
1.e4...c5
2.Bc4
(you are currently set to max 20 games)

I didn't say it was good, just not losing. However, as you asked, we'll have a rated game (just remind me to play 2. Bc4...).

Originally posted by DeepThought
I didn't say it was good, just not losing. However, as you asked, we'll have a rated game (just remind me to play 2. Bc4...).

(post deleted)

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
Game 3156827
Unrated because you are 1800 & will mash me if I can't expose your early lunacy!😛

You might want to delete that and fix it so you haven't given white a whole extra move there...

Originally posted by cmsMaster
You might want to delete that and fix it so you haven't given white a whole extra move there...

Ok & it's rated so I don't do anything too stupid early on.
Game 3156832

thats funny looks like whites got a great game already!! that didnt take long