I don't see any viable defense to the threatened 11. d5. For example:
10...Ncxd4 11. Nxd4 Nxd4 12. Rxe8+ K moves 13. Q moves and white is winning
10...Na5 11. Qb5+ and black either drops the a5 knight or retreats it back to c6 inviting 12. d5 again. To play on here might be pointless, but since we have to come up with an idea, black should resign himself to losing one of the knights and play to complete his development. Then he can attempt to generate soem kind of counterattack against white's weakened King. Perhaps the best plan at this point (aside from resigning) would be g6, Bg7, and O-O. At any rate, black's position appears to me to be in complete shambles now.
Edit- Just read through Varenka's analysis from last night, and sliding the Queen to the d-file looks plausible. I still think white has the better of it after d5, where the e6 knight remains pinned, albeit temporarily. I don't like black's position at all.
If you re-read the whole thread then you will find it remarkable how white's play was initially valued as 1200-ish, and now black seems to hardly be able to survive. Did the game swing that much, or was it just the posters' opinions? White's play reminds me of a few recent games by Morozevich.
I would go for Qd8: doesn't stand in the way for either bishop to be (at last) developed; pins the d-pawn; is out of reach of the knight on f3. It doesn't defend e6, but white can win the pawn only at the cost of an exchange, and probably lose. 11.d5 is answered by Na5. So, no immediate threat there. On the other hand, black threatens to win the d-pawn. We may expect 11.Be3.
Originally posted by Mephisto2We can only comment as the game unfolds. White's moves bad early on, and Black seemed to be at least equal, possibly even with advantage at one point. Could this game posssibly bee a lesson in the problem with following principles dogmatically? At any rate, White certainly seems to have come up with a game, but who knows whhat will happen in the moves to come.
If you re-read the whole thread then you will find it remarkable how white's play was initially valued as 1200-ish, and now black seems to hardly be able to survive. Did the game swing that much, or was it just the posters' opinions? White's play reminds me of a few recent games by Morozevich.
Originally posted by Mephisto2I like Qe6 better.
If you re-read the whole thread then you will find it remarkable how white's play was initially valued as 1200-ish, and now black seems to hardly be able to survive. Did the game swing that much, or was it just the posters' opinions? White's play reminds me of a few recent games by Morozevich.
I would go for Qd8: doesn't stand in the way for either bis ...[text shortened]... e threat there. On the other hand, black threatens to win the d-pawn. We may expect 11.Be3.
Qd8 invites Bg5
...f3 loses to Bxe6
... Be7
Bxe7 Kxe7 (...Qe7, d5)
Nc3 N(c)xd4 (...Na5 Qb4+)
Nd5+ Kf8
Qa3+
If, instead of Kf8:
...kd7
Ne5+ has to be nasty (...ke8, ?)
...Kd6
Qa3+ c5
Ne5 Qk8
b4 looks nasty, though I can't find the win.
I'm not liking the way any of this look, even though I'm not finding the immediate win.
So, I say Qd6 over Qd8.
??
I've looked and I can't see any reason black would want to resign when whites advantage is small....
1.Qd7 d5 2.Na5 +/-
BLReid, had noticed Na5 Qb5+...which fails, however if you Play Qd7 then Na5 everything works out smoothly....(for the time being)
Qd7...I don't see anything else even worth considering....
The only Problem with this line is that I'm assuming "d5" is whites best move
I am sure that I am missing something here, as I have in just about every other move I have suggeted, but it looks to me like d5 is just about winning. The idea is to move Bd2 next, freeing the pawn to win one of the knights. The horse on e6 is pinned, and the one on c6 still can't go to a5 due to Qb5+. No doubt someone will post very shortly to point out what I am missing, but this position looks strong for white to me.
White's next move could be 11.d5. But he doesn't win a piece after 11. ... Ne7 and 12. ... Nc5. For that reason 11.Be3 is also a possible move (instead of 11.d5). Or move the queen out of the threat (Nc5 or at another time Na5) with 11.Qc3. In view of the choices made earlier on I think white will play 11.d5 indeed.
Curious position with both sides pinned with their king in the middle.
Originally posted by Mephisto2That's a nifty little unpin maneuver worth remembering. 🙂
White's next move could be 11.d5. But he doesn't win a piece after 11. ... Ne7 and 12. ... Nc5. For that reason 11.Be3 is also a possible move (instead of 11.d5). Or move the queen out of the threat (Nc5 or at another time Na5) with 11.Qc3. In view of the choices made earlier on I think white will play 11.d5 indeed.
Curious position with both sides pinned with their king in the middle.
Originally posted by BLReidYou’re going to want to kick my butt, because this is probably the second post where I debate your choice of words… :-)
That's a nifty little unpin maneuver worth remembering. 🙂
I don’t think you’ll gain much by “remembering” as such. Such maneuvers are usually too varied to recall from a previous game. What is required is to develop the *skill* of finding such things during play. So, rather than think “ok, I now see this and will remember for later” (knowledge), you need to be thinking “why didn’t I find it here and now?” (skill).
Experience and “pattern matching” are indeed important parts of chess (knowledge). But chess is too vast to play well based mainly on what we’ve seen before. We must be able to make discoveries during each game too (skill). I think this helps explain why some kids can play better than adults who have years of experience.
In Rowson’s “Chess for Zebras” he discusses this as “hindsight” versus “foresight”, and suggests we need more of the latter. Note: nobody is saying that knowledge isn’t important too.
(By-the-way, I realise your choice of words was possibly somewhat arbitrary. I often don’t need much of an excuse to chat about chess. :-))
Originally posted by VarenkaYou wanna step outside! 😉
You’re going to want to kick my butt, because this is probably the second post where I debate your choice of words… :-)
I don’t think you’ll gain much by “remembering” as such. Such maneuvers are usually too varied to recall from a previous game. What is required is to develop the *skill* of finding such things during play. So, rather than think “ok, I ...[text shortened]... was possibly somewhat arbitrary. I often don’t need much of an excuse to chat about chess. :-))
Originally posted by Mephisto2I'm not sure if you were talking about my posts but If you were then I have this comment:
If you re-read the whole thread then you will find it remarkable how white's play was initially valued as 1200-ish, and now black seems to hardly be able to survive. Did the game swing that much, or was it just the posters' opinions? White's play reminds me of a few recent games by Morozevich.
I would go for Qd8: doesn't stand in the way for either bis ...[text shortened]... e threat there. On the other hand, black threatens to win the d-pawn. We may expect 11.Be3.
I don't think white is a 1200-ish player. I was saying that he isn't a master level in my opinion when this game was played judged by the opening moves.