PAWN RIOT VS The Forum Move 15

15...Rc8 is better. 16. Ndxb5, a6
And line B is open for attack.
We can advance a6-a5-a4 and open and line A for attack.

Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
This is a continuation of Thread 103376.

PAWN RIOT has just submitted 15.b3, leading to the following position

[pgn]1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.Kb1 Nc4 13.Bxc4 Rxc4 14.g4 b5 15.b3[/pgn]

We did much preparation for this in the last thread. ...[text shortened]... e problematic means problematic (and not good) for black.
Is that what you guys interpret?

Very risky but...

..Qb8.

White takes the rook, black takes the pawn for discovered check. King moves and we have the king exposed and isolated for our attack with the Queen, the white-squared bishop and the second rook. We may even get our black-squared bishop back into the fight if white defends with his knights.

Credit to parshooter for the novelty. It's certainly a shot, but I'm not convinced we have sufficient compensation for the rook after
Qb8 bxc4 bxc4+ Ka1 any Rb1

b4??
Honestly guy, are you really hoping to beat a 2400 player with tatics alone?

He has every database, countless books, as much time as he wants, and all the other information he needs at his disposal.

Do you really think he is going for for a cheap shot?
I vote Rc8

Originally posted by clandarkfire
b4??
Honestly guy, are you really hoping to beat a 2400 player with tatics alone?

He has every database, countless books, as much time as he wants, and all the other information he needs at his disposal.

Do you really think he is going for for a cheap shot?
I vote Rc8

This is exactly what we want -and it is not "tactics alone" (BTW, what do you mean "with tactics alone"? Our moves they do follow a plan.

Why don't you check the threads PAWN RIOT VS The Forum 12/ 13/ 14?

I vote Rc8

I will vote for Rc8.

15. ... Rc8

If we are not going for my rook-sac, queen-attack plan, why not retreat the rook to c7 with the idea of moving the Q to b8 and doubling rooks on the c file? This puts lots of pressure on black's K.

Strategically, our advantages are that black's K is isolated, he has weakened his pawn wall and we can get lots of pieces onto the queen-side quickly.

Our disadvantages are a useless knight and sequestered bishop.

When we exchange our white-squared bishop, we give our knight a place to move which brings the black-squared bishop back into action.

Originally posted by venci
15...Rc8 is better. 16. Ndxb5, a6
And line B is open for attack.
We can advance a6-a5-a4 and open and line A for attack.

15...Rc8 16 Ndb5 Qa5 (16...a6!? 17. Nd4 Qc7 18. Nde2 Be6 19. Bd4 +/= Goloschapov-Korobov, Nizhni-Novgorod 1999 (YB 60/31) 17. Nd5 (17. a4 a6 18. Nd5 Qd2 19. Ne7 Kh8 20. Rd2 Rce8 (Black is in a depressing state) 21. Nd6; 21. Ng6; 21. Nf5) 17...Qb5 18. Ne7 Kh8 19. Nc8 Rc8 20. Bd4 (20. g5 +- Rowson-Burnett, Edinburgh 2000 - YB 60/32) 20...Be6 21.h4 Kg8 22.h5 Qc6 (22...a5 23. hg6 hg6 24. Qf4 g5? 25. Qf6 1-0 Grafl-S. Farago, Budapest, 2001) 23.h6 Bh8 24. g5 Ne8 25. Bh8 Kh8 26. c4+- Doghri-Enjuto Velasco, Bled Ol 2002)

Hence ...Rc8 does not seem the way to go - ...b4 seems better

I vote 15...b4, it is much more exciting than 15...Rc8.

Originally posted by ptobler
15...Rc8 16 Ndb5 Qa5 (16...a6!? 17. Nd4 Qc7 18. Nde2 Be6 19. Bd4 +/= Goloschapov-Korobov, Nizhni-Novgorod 1999 (YB 60/31) 17. Nd5 (17. a4 a6 18. Nd5 Qd2 19. Ne7 Kh8 20. Rd2 Rce8 (Black is in a depressing state) 21. Nd6; 21. Ng6; 21. Nf5) 17...Qb5 18. Ne7 Kh8 19. Nc8 Rc8 20. Bd4 (20. g5 +- Rowson-Burnett, Edinburgh 2000 - YB 60/32) 20...Be6 21.h4 Kg8 22.h5 Qc ...[text shortened]... i-Enjuto Velasco, Bled Ol 2002)

Hence ...Rc8 does not seem the way to go - ...b4 seems better

16...a6!? 17. Nd4 Qc7 18. Nde2 Be6 19. Bd4 +/= Goloschapov-Korobov, Nizhni-Novgorod 1999

19...a5 +/= has pretty much been the evaluation since 12...Nc4

Still, we need to analyze both Rc8 and b4, not just give bad lines for one.

Here's my line for b4:

15...b4 16.bxc4 bxc3 17.Qxc3 Qc7 18.h4 h5 19.g4 Nh7 20.Ka1 Rc8
or
20.Kc1 Rc8

ok, black doesn't look too bad...he has threats, but with an out of place knight and being down an exchange, is it worth it?

Actually, it might be. Black has the bishop pair and after:

20.Kc1 Rc8 21.Qd3 Nf8 22.Nb3 Be6

black is looking good, but this may not be the best line.

I hate arguing with myself but noone else seems to be giving too much analysis with both sides. Maybe, I'll change my vote... b4

Edit: I don't really hate arguing with myself; just trying to encourage bigger participation.

i am with Toni benoni on this one, our whole plan starting way back on move twelve i think it was when we played Nc4 was to go for this exchange sacrifice and try to open the queenside up for some conterplay, i do not believe that wasting a tempo on a move like Rc8 will help us in anyway, delay and white crashes through, therefore

i vote ...b4

Originally posted by ResigningSoon

Here's my line for b4:

15...b4 16.bxc4 bxc3 17.Qxc3 Qc7 18.h4 h5 19.g4 Nh7 20.Ka1 Rc8
or
20.Kc1 Rc8

ok, black doesn't look too bad...he has threats, but with an out of place knight and being down an exchange, is it worth it?

Actually, it might be. Black has the bishop pair and after:

20.Kc1 Rc8 21.Qd3 Nf8 22.Nb3 Be6

black is looking good, but this may not be the best line.

I've stated already that 18. h4 is probably inaccurate. Black should get on with it and play:

18...Rc8! 19. h5 Be8! and play ...Nd7-b6. White has nothing on the kingside anyway. None of his pieces can effectively attack when his king has it's own problems.

I am nøt sure b4 will give us enough compassasion for a lost rook. i prefer Rc5.