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  1. 16 Nov '08 00:01
    This is a continuation of Thread 103376.

    PAWN RIOT has just submitted 15.b3, leading to the following position



    We did much preparation for this in the last thread.

    We seemed to arrive at the conclusion that 15. ... b4 was the best try.

    I will still leave it open for discussion.

    In my last message to PAWN RIOT, I wrote this

    "I was looking at the sac (14. ... Bxg4) but it didn't really catch on."

    He responded to that with

    "I think Bxg4 is more in keeping with the Dragon also i think its more problematic but thats only my view."

    I assume problematic means problematic (and not good) for black.
    Is that what you guys interpret?
  2. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    16 Nov '08 01:21
    Yeah ...b4 is really the only move, else he just takes on b5 next move and we're worse. I do believe he meant that ...Bxg4 probably is not great for Black.
  3. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    16 Nov '08 03:07
    I vote 15...b4
  4. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    16 Nov '08 03:08
    Time for a PAWN RIOT vs the Forum move 15 thread?
  5. 16 Nov '08 11:32
    B4? I cannot believe b4 is the main line by masters? I know nothing of the Dragon, but b4 doesn't seem to have much merit.
    B4 Bxc4 Bxc3 Qxc3 Qc7 (perhaps) h4 and white surely wins by force?

    Better looks like:
    Rc8 Ndxb5 (ncxb5? e5!) a6 nd4 (N~ Rxc3! Qxc3 Nxe4) Qc7 nxn
    and we're going to get some play.

    I vote Rc8
  6. 17 Nov '08 00:34
    I think Rc8 is probably best, but since we played b4 I think we may as well continue our planned line.

    I won't vote yet though, instead consider the following:

    15...Rc8 16.Nxb5 a6 17.Nd4 Qc7 18.Nd-e2 this position compared with
    15...b4 16.bxc4 bxc3 17.Qxc3 Qc7 18.h4 (line in previous post)

    honestly, which one looks better?

    I'd like to see lines past the 18th move to compare plans.
  7. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    17 Nov '08 01:08
    Black is just much worse after 15...Rc8 16. Ndxb5. This has been confirmed in quite a few games. 15...b4 is Black's best in this line, even if it's ridiculously unclear.
  8. 17 Nov '08 03:08
    I like b4, it has chances, Rc8 doesn't.
  9. Standard member randolph
    the walrus
    17 Nov '08 03:13
    Yeah, based on previous analysis I'd say b4 is our only hope.
  10. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    17 Nov '08 05:00
    I vote 15. ...b4
  11. 17 Nov '08 06:34
    Like the song goes "It's too late to turn back now"

    15. ... b4 is my vote.

    (If we lose, the whole forum can send Carlsen and Dearing hate mail. )
  12. 17 Nov '08 06:52
    ok, yall are all saying Rc8 is worse but I'd prefer to see some lines to prove it. I honestly can't see it being worse than b4. Please give me some analysis to attempt to refute.
  13. 17 Nov '08 06:53
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    Like the song goes "It's too late to turn back now"

    15. ... b4 is my vote.

    (If we lose, the whole forum can send Carlsen and Dearing hate mail. )
    we can't send carlsen hate mail since we haven't played his line.
  14. 17 Nov '08 07:46
    Originally posted by ResigningSoon
    we can't send carlsen hate mail since we haven't played his line.
    I see now.

    When he had the position with black, he played 12. ... Re8 twice and 12. ... a6 three times.

    So besides Dearing and a trendy opening book, who are we following?
  15. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    17 Nov '08 08:34
    Scott Fraser-Andrew Burnett, Glenrothes Open 2003 (5), as per NIC Yearbook 85

    14. g4 b5 15. b3 b4 16. Nce2 ...

    there is a lot of analysis in Yearbook 85 for White's options at move 16 and for the rest of the game