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  1. 26 Jan '09 15:49
    This is a continuation of Thread 106464.

    The new move is 23. exd5.

  2. 26 Jan '09 15:58
    23.exd5 Nd6 24.c5 Qxc5 25.Qxc5 Rxc5 26.Rc1 Rxd5 27.c3

    23.exd5 Qxc4 24.Qxc4 Rxc4 25.Rd1 Nc7

    I'm leaning towards Qxc4.
  3. Standard member ivan2908
    SelfProclaimedTitler
    26 Jan '09 16:03
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    This is a continuation of Thread 106464.

    The new move is 23. exd5.

    [pgn]1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.Kb1 Nc4 13.Bxc4 Rxc4 14.g4 b5 15.b3 b4 16.bxc4 bxc3 17.Qxc3 Qc7 18.h4 h5 19.g5 Rb8+ 20.Ka1 Ne8 21.Rb1 Rc8 22.Rb2 d5 23.exd5 [/pgn]
    Didn't look at this thread(s) for a while. Where is compensation for the lack of material ??
  4. 26 Jan '09 16:20
    Originally posted by ivan2908
    Didn't look at this thread(s) for a while. Where is compensation for the lack of material ??
    Try to imagine being that bishop on g7, and then look what he's pointing at.
  5. 26 Jan '09 16:28
    Originally posted by ResigningSoon
    23.exd5 Nd6 24.c5 Qxc5 25.Qxc5 Rxc5 26.Rc1 Rxd5 27.c3

    23.exd5 Qxc4 24.Qxc4 Rxc4 25.Rd1 Nc7

    I'm leaning towards Qxc4.
    White can't save his c-pawn after 23... Nd6, so why not making our knight more active?

    I vote for 23. ... N-d6
  6. 26 Jan '09 18:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by ResigningSoon
    23.exd5 Nd6 24.c5 Qxc5 25.Qxc5 Rxc5 26.Rc1 Rxd5 27.c3
    What about after 23.exd5 Nd6 24.c5
    24...e5 followed by e4 after white's knight retreats. The alternative en passant capture looks good for black with our bishop getting active and the bishop on g7 with a full view of the diagonal.
  7. 26 Jan '09 18:16
    I don't like 25... Nb3 in your variation...
  8. 26 Jan '09 18:23
    Yes, looking at it, a pair of passed pawns would probably be the death of black.
  9. 26 Jan '09 22:34 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Thomaster
    White can't save his c-pawn after 23... Nd6, so why not making our knight more active?

    I vote for 23. ... N-d6
    I've been trying hard to avoid comments like this. Give concrete lines and then try to evaluate the end position.

    And white's c-pawn is lost either way really; we're not fighting for a pawn, we're fighting for initiative.

    Edit: Here's my last comment from the previous thread.

    Now it's time for some very thorough analysis:

    23.exd5 Nd6 24.c5 Qxc5 25.Qxc5 Rxc5 26.Rc1 Rxd5 27.c3

    23.exd5 Qxc4 24.Qxc4 Rxc4 25.Rd1 Nc7

    This is what we have so far. How deep can we take these lines?

    The first line: 26.Rc1 isn't forced. The idea is to play c3 though.
    And 26...Rxd5 isn't forced either; we have Kh7 or Nc4 as decent options. Nc4 is the most forcing so I'm going to continue some preliminary analysis. 26...Nc4 27.Rb8+ Kh7 28.Bg1(Bf2 also possible) and now we can choose between Rxd5, Be5 looks tricky, or a5? (save the pawn from Rb7 fork?) maybe? Be5 is more forcing. 28...Be5 29.Rb7 Rxd5 now 30.Rd1 or c3 is forced. I think c3 will allow white to untangle, but 30...Bg3 may hold for us. Needs a look over by a stronger player.

    After the latter line my guess is white will play 26.d6 or 26.Rb8+. I've stated before that I prefer this line because white can't play c3 yet. I think this may be a better variation. I'll just look at white's most forcing moves 26.d6 exd6 27.Rb8+ Kh7 28.Rb7 and I'm not sure what we play here:a5 or a6, Rxc2, Ba4 or Be6 or Bc8 or any bishop move other than Bg4. We have plenty of possibilities so one of them is bound to be good.

    Anyways, we're tying down white's bishop, knight, and rook in this second line so it's my favorite.

    P.S. I'm not being mean Thomaster, I would just like to see your plans after Nd6.
  10. 26 Jan '09 22:44
    ..a6 followed by ..Bb5.
  11. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    27 Jan '09 09:28
    Originally posted by TheGambit
    Yes, looking at it, a pair of passed pawns would probably be the death of black.
    Isn't it one passed pawn and one half passed? Why does white have all that stuff on the diagonal like that, I mean the g7 bishop seems to be exerting a lot of influence on things there.Why hasn't he done a king trip to get it out of harms way?
  12. 27 Jan '09 11:43
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Isn't it one passed pawn and one half passed? Why does white have all that stuff on the diagonal like that, I mean the g7 bishop seems to be exerting a lot of influence on things there.Why hasn't he done a king trip to get it out of harms way?
    One half passed? That's funny.

    A king trip? The game has been pretty forced since our exchange sac. The main purpose of which was to put everything on the diagonal.
  13. 27 Jan '09 13:55
    I'm sorry to say that we're lost. Yes we've put all his pieces on the diagnol, and yes, we've shattered his pawn structure, but face it: we're down an Exchange and two pawns. We have no initiative. We have no space. The g7 bishop is shooting blanks.

    I vote for 1-0.
  14. 27 Jan '09 14:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by moteutsch
    I'm sorry to say that we're lost. Yes we've put all his pieces on the diagnol, and yes, we've shattered his pawn structure, but face it: we're down an Exchange and two pawns. We have no initiative. We have no space. The g7 bishop is shooting blanks.

    I vote for [b]1-0
    .[/b]
    Hope this is a joke?! If not, our position is perfectly viable - put some effort into finding the best way forward. At the moment I'm leaning towards 23...Nd6 and if 24.c5 then 24...Qxc5 and I don't see why we should be worse.
  15. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    27 Jan '09 15:31
    Originally posted by streetfighter
    Hope this is a joke?! If not, our position is perfectly viable - put some effort into finding the best way forward. At the moment I'm leaning towards 23...Nd6 and if 24.c5 then 24...Qxc5 and I don't see why we should be worse.
    I agree. I will post some of my analysis when I get home from work, but I think any type of general comments should be backed up with some analysis. It's a complete waste of your time and Russ' space to post something like, "We're lost LOLZ! RESIGN!" or "I like ...Nd6 because it activates our knight." Prove it with some analysis, and then we can get some constructive commentary happening. General comments in a position as weird as this one are useless, since the position is so concrete, and we're down four points of material (although we're surely going to get at least 2 back). We need hard analysis, with some evaluations at the end when the position has clarified itself a bit.

    I think this is a critical position, with ...Nd6 and ...Qxc4 being the choices. This move could decide whether or not we get enough for the material. Maybe we reach a nice ending, or maybe he consolidates and beats us! Let's work it out!