Praise Jesus - USCF Rule Change

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
How can you justify writing more than one move per turn when the scoresheet is intended to be used solely as a record of the game?

If you're changing any moves, even 1 in 1,000, for reasons other than transcription errors, what you are really writing on the scoresheet are candidates, which are not supposed to be part of the game record.

The score sheet will be a record of the game. The scoresheet isnt being used as an analysis tool at all, writing down moves 1 ply deep in itself isnt going to change the out come.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Then you are using the scoresheet as an aid, which is explicitly forbidden elsewhere. The scoresheet is not there to help you play.

If you mean an aid for not thinking then you are right. If you mean an aid for analysis then you are wrong.

Originally posted by Bedlam
The scoresheet isnt being used as an analysis tool at all

But you have admitted that you use it as an aid of some sort, if not an analysis aid.

Originally posted by Bedlam
The scoresheet isnt being used as an analysis tool at all, writing down moves 1 ply deep in itself isnt going to change the out come.

How about 2-ply deep? Might that change the outcome?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But you have admitted that you use it as an aid of some sort, if not an analysis aid.

The score sheet is just part of a system. The difference between using the score sheet as an aid to not thinking and using it as an analysis aid are huge. The rule change seems to be made to combat the use of score cards as analysis aid.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
How about 2-ply deep? Might that change the outcome?

Depends on the level of players. Id find writing the moves down and doing analysis that way to be rather slow.

If using an electronic board and being able to look a move down ie one ply and the reply then that is infact analysis.

Originally posted by Bedlam
The score sheet will be a record of the game.

Yes, and this is its only purpose. But how do you record something that hasn't yet happened? You can't. If you write it before moving, it's an "intention", not a record, at that point in time.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Depends on the level of players. Id find writing the moves down and doing analysis that way to be rather slow.

But do you think it should be allowed? That is, should I be allowed to write my opponent's expected reply before making my move, since that will have to be written anyway?

Originally posted by Varenka
But how do you record something that hasn't yet happened? You can't.

It's impossible, unless the written move is binding. This is the white elephant that Bedlam and Wulebgr won't address. They insist that they are not using the scoresheet as an analysis aid, yet want the ability to change their written moves after further analysing those moves.

Originally posted by Varenka
Yes, and this is its only purpose. But how do you record something that hasn't yet happened? You can't. If you write it before moving, it's an "intention", not a record, at that point in time.

Its a record of my intention (yes I know thats not an answer) 🙂 When I submit the score card it is a perfect record of the game and nothing more. I do see your point, but I dont really agree with the rule.

Frankly I think this is FIDE and the like messing with chess in a bad way. A lot of chess players write the moves down first......a lot of GM's do it, the rule needs to be changed to show the difference between a visual board and a paper score sheet, writing the move down first has been a corner stone of many chess players games since score cards came into existance.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But do you think it should be allowed? That is, should I be allowed to write my opponent's expected reply before making my move, since that will have to be written anyway?

Thats your opponents move and its going past 1 ply which gets into the level of analysis.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
It's impossible, unless the written move is binding. This is the white elephant that Bedlam and Wulebgr won't address. They insist that they are not using the scoresheet as an analysis aid, yet want the ability to change their written moves after further analysing those moves.

Using the score card itself as analysis for chess and using it as part of a system are two different things. The USCF and FIDE rules are designed not to allow players to analyze on the score card. They are not designed to stop it being used as a system.....even if thats what they do infact do.

For the thread in general...

If allowed to write and then move, how often should a player be allowed to change their mind? Supposing I find 3 candidate moves in the initial position and I'm afraid I forget them while analysing each in depth, can I write, e.g. Nf3... immediately score it out with a single faint line... write Bb5... immediately score it out likewise... write Qe2. And then when I've decided which is best, write that one? So how about no writing till a move is made; simple.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Thats your opponents move and its going past 1 ply which gets into the level of analysis.

I don't think you followed what I was trying to say.

The scoresheet is a record of the game, correct?
You write down your move before making it. If the scoresheet is truly a record, then that move is as good as played.

Now, your opponent's move is the pending ply, since your move has already been recorded. But you have said that examining one ply does not constitute analysis, so writing your opponent's move here - one ply from the recorded position - ought not constitute analysis.

So, if you think you ought not be able to record your opponent's expected move before making yours, you must concede that either:
1) The scoresheet is not in fact a record of the game, or
2) Examing one ply can in fact constitute analysis.

Originally posted by Varenka
For the thread in general...

If allowed to write and then move, how often should a player be allowed to change their mind? Supposing I find 3 candidate moves in the initial position and I'm afraid I forget them while analysing each in depth, can I write, e.g. Nf3... immediately score it out with a single faint line... write Bb5... immediately score it o ...[text shortened]... e decided which is best, write that one? So how about no writing till a move is made; simple.

If you forget a candidate move then maybe chess isnt for you......I really cant picture someone forgetting candidate moves 😛

Writing the move down with say 15.Bb2 (clear advantage) then crossing it out then writing down 15.Qh3 (unclear) etc would be using the score card as an analysis aid and shouldnt be allowed, but using it as a system I really cant see anything at all wrong with it, people can talk about rules all they want but I still wont see anything wrong with it providing its not being used as direct analysis.