Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. 27 Dec '11 13:23
    Hi all

    Can anyone explain the basic ideas/concepts/plans of the black side of the QGD.
  2. Subscriber Ragwort
    Ex Duris Gloria
    27 Dec '11 19:14
    Originally posted by rob39
    Hi all

    Can anyone explain the basic ideas/concepts/plans of the black side of the QGD.
    Run round putting out fires for forty moves then if still alive win the endgame with the queenside pawn majority!

    How do you intend to decline the gambit? 1.d4 d5 2.c4


    2...c6 Slav complex
    2...Nc6 Chigorin's Defence

    2...e6 3.Nc3
    ..... c5 Tarrasch Defence
    c6 Semi Slav (Stonewall Dutch by transposition, Marshall Gambit, Abrahams/Noteboom Meran Defence, Botvinnik Variation and so on.
    .... Nf6 The QGD complex featuring the Cambridge Springs, Orthodox QGD, Lasker and Tartakover and Swiss Defence variations plus many "sidelines" and transpositions into lines above, and we haven't brushed the 3...Be7 lines yet.

    You have asked a very big question. You will be told that "The QDG is boring, and gives Black no winning chances" despite the fact that almost all the world champions have played it in critical matches. You will be told that "The Tarrasch gives freer play for your pieces, but leads to a slightly worse endgame" because that is what it says in MCO after Kasparov toyed with it 20 years ago; or "The exchange variation leads to a strong minority attack for white" because that is what it said in instruction books that all the 60 year olds read and have regurgitated since. Most average club and internet players lack the skills to replicate those verdicts even if they are true at top level.

    The best thing to do is decline the gambit a few times, try to defend the threats you can see, form a plan to counterattack White's centre, and see how it goes. Can you find good piece placements easily or do you feel restricted and cramped. Are your opponents putting you under too much pressure or do find the positions solid and secure. Do you go to those games first in your play list or do you leave them to the end and dither? This will be the best guide to how you feel about an opening before you get into the specifics of individual moves, move orders and ideas. Those will then be dictated by the accuracy of the opponent's play as you progress through the levels...
  3. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    27 Dec '11 20:47
    The key idea behind 1.. d5 is to create a strong point in the center and hold it. White will try to undermine the d5 square but over a hundred years of praxis shows that it is not so easy. At this point, the whole complex of QGDs make up a ton of different specific ideas as Ragwort pointed out quite well. Your best bet is to start with some of the games of the old Master's like Capa, Alekhine, Pillsbury, etc. and read some good annotations on them.

    Avoid opening books unless they are the Matt Sadler style of writing.
  4. 27 Dec '11 22:07
    The plan is to play e6/Nf6/Be7. Would you look for action down the c file by opening it up with c5 exchanging and playing Rac8. Playing b6/Bb7 before this??????
  5. 27 Dec '11 22:18
    Originally posted by rob39
    The plan is to play e6/Nf6/Be7. Would you look for action down the c file by opening it up with c5 exchanging and playing Rac8. Playing b6/Bb7 before this??????
    I personally love b6 and Bb7. Its a great idea. However I'd recommend you do some study on why its being done. Its (in my opinion) the best crack on the light squares of white (esp. e4) which is a very important weakness in the QG. As far as opening up the c file with c5... there is value to this, but you'll find that you'll want to play the Nimzo if your looking for any type of advantage with this idea. In all reality its all very playable. Perhaps the best answer to the QG is the QGA rather than the QGD. I'd say its all a question of comfort.

    Best of luck.

    Q
  6. Subscriber Ragwort
    Ex Duris Gloria
    27 Dec '11 22:19
    I agree with Nimzo. Older masters had to make their strategical plans much earlier in the game because theory was not so advanced and good annotations will help learning some of the ideas early in the game.

    In the meantime I offer an annotated QGD game Semi Slav Marshall Gambit where I was Black. The game was played here in a recent tournament and quite quickly on both sides, so it became more like an OTB encounter. I have not looked at theory or computer analysed the game so the notes are pretty much what was going through my head as I played the game. The opening is book (although easy to understand) as far as Black's eight move but after that I don't know. It felt like an exciting tactical battle when I played it and for many moves I thought I was losing. It shows you how I play my chess. Rarely are there any far reaching plans it's more often a question of staying on one's two feet and trying to give as good as one gets. It is very much to club player standard.

    Annotation 1970

  7. 27 Dec '11 22:33
    Originally posted by Ragwort
    I agree with Nimzo. Older masters had to make their strategical plans much earlier in the game because theory was not so advanced and good annotations will help learning some of the ideas early in the game.

    In the meantime I offer an annotated QGD game Semi Slav Marshall Gambit where I was Black. The game was played here in a recent tournament and quite q ...[text shortened]... interesting battle which I felt lucky to win.} 0-1[/pgn]
    A good read. Well annotated. I recommend going through more of this players annotated games.

    Q
  8. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    28 Dec '11 02:28
    Originally posted by Ragwort
    I agree with Nimzo. Older masters had to make their strategical plans much earlier in the game because theory was not so advanced and good annotations will help learning some of the ideas early in the game.

    In the meantime I offer an annotated QGD game Semi Slav Marshall Gambit where I was Black. The game was played here in a recent tournament and quite q ...[text shortened]... interesting battle which I felt lucky to win.} 0-1[/pgn]
    Thanks for the annotation Ragwort!