I have played a lot of online chess. It seems to me that more experienced chess players push their rook pawns out one to prevent knight pins. While this is effective in negating that move in particular, it seems to me that having to add two moves to your open stunts development and weakens your pawn structure on the edge making you more vulnerable once you castle.
That being said, it doesn't seem to hurt thier game that much. Is there something to these moves that I am missing? I have never played to prevent those pins, and while they are slightly annoying, I have never found a bishop pin to a king or queen in the first ten moves to really bother me that much. Opinions??
Originally posted by KWCoronaAlso, playing ..h3 is not that bad when castling MOST of the time....if they play according to theory, the move can't hurt them I suppose!
I have played a lot of online chess. It seems to me that more experienced chess players push their rook pawns out one to prevent knight pins. While this is effective in negating that move in particular, it seems to me that having to add two moves to your open stunts development and weakens your pawn structure on the edge making you more vulnerable once you ...[text shortened]... bishop pin to a king or queen in the first ten moves to really bother me that much. Opinions??
Originally posted by lordsteIts not a matter of attack. If I had already moved my bishop for the pin it makes perfect sense. I, however do not use knight pins very much at all in my attack. Pushing the pawn to prevent that with me as an opponant is just a wasted move. I just don't know why you don't deal with the problem if it arises rather than spending your opening moving pawns rather than pieces.
Never heard about opening theory??? In some cases (e.g. the Ruy Lopez) it's the best move to attack that annoying bishop pinning the knight that defends your e5 pawn...
lordste
Originally posted by KWCoronah3 controls g4 and stops you oppenent putting his bishop or knight or any other piece there for that matter. A knight on g4 can mean serious trouble on f2.
Its not a matter of attack. If I had already moved my bishop for the pin it makes perfect sense. I, however do not use knight pins very much at all in my attack. Pushing the pawn to prevent that with me as an opponant is just a wasted move. I just don't know why you don't deal with the problem if it arises rather than spending your opening moving pawns rather than pieces.
Originally posted by KWCoronaI too have played a lot of online chess,and OTB as well.It is my experience that the more experienced (better) players,do NOT push their a or h pawn in the opening.When they do,they'll have a very good reason for it (openingtheory).
I have played a lot of online chess. It seems to me that more experienced chess players push their rook pawns out one to prevent knight pins. While this is effective in negating that move in particular, it seems to me that having to add two moves to your open stunts development and weakens your pawn structure on the edge making you more vulnerable once you ...[text shortened]... bishop pin to a king or queen in the first ten moves to really bother me that much. Opinions??
Personally,like you,I don't push those pawns to prevent pins,unless I think the pin is dangerous.Maybe I would,if I have included a possible pawn storm in my plans,but then we're usually way past the opening stage and it's not really to prevent a pin.
Sir Lot.
I am one of those pawn pushers. The reason why I do it, is yes, I know it's bad for opening development, as Pandolfini says, but it's the lesser of two evils. Often, I find, if you ignore those knight pins, very good players will punish you ASAP. It may not seem like much of a problem at first, but 3-4 moves later, and a few seemingly suicidal queen and knight advances, those bishops pinning knights kill ya, and you are a victim of an opening cheapo.
Another case in point were I often push, say the h pawn, is when my opponent plays an early Bc4 then Nf3. If you do not play h6, then your opponent threatens Ng5, and voila, a fork threatened and even if you notice it, it's somewhat hard to save the pawn. I used to do this opening cheapo as a 2nd grader, and won all the time with it, IMHO, h3 is the best and simplest defense against it.
Moving a pawn to h3(h6) is a wasted tempo unless absolutely necessary. I've seen beginning players do it a lot because they're afraid of pins. When my opponent plays h6 to stop the bishop from pinning, all i see is a target. Best to leave those three pawns as long as possible in front of king. Unless you're playing a King's gambit, of course.
In some variations, it is great to play h3 or a3....in a couple of the pirc systems white plays h3 to stop Bg4, which is good for black, pressuring his center. Also, in the queens indian, some play a3 early as white....as popularized by Petrosian, and then later, the man himself, Gary Kasparov! So some of these moves should definitely be played, but most of the time, not!
Originally posted by mateuloseThe response to that is d4. followed by Be3. You'll probably be down a paw, but trying to get cute that early in a game can get you way behind in development and sound positioning. Many times I have just conceded the rook because once the knight is in the corner, its extremely easy to keep him pinned in there virtually the whole game making him a wasted piece.
I am one of those pawn pushers. The reason why I do it, is yes, I know it's bad for opening development, as Pandolfini says, but it's the lesser of two evils. Often, I find, if you ignore those knight pins, very good players will punish you ASAP. It may not seem like much of a problem at first, but 3-4 moves later, and a few seemingly suicidal queen and ...[text shortened]... 2nd grader, and won all the time with it, IMHO, h3 is the best and simplest defense against it.
Originally posted by KWCoronaA knight pin is an in-direct attack on the center. If the knight is protecting an issolated central pawn, or the pawn cannot be defended by another pawn, then the player playing the bishop pin may be able to take the initiative by attacking the pawn again on the next move.
I have played a lot of online chess. It seems to me that more experienced chess players push their rook pawns out one to prevent knight pins. While this is effective in negating that move in particular, it seems to me that having to add two moves to your open stunts development and weakens your pawn structure on the edge making you more vulnerable once you ...[text shortened]... bishop pin to a king or queen in the first ten moves to really bother me that much. Opinions??
Sometimes if a central pawn is attacked by 3 pieces and defended by 3 pieces (for example), the bishop pin can be a serious threat which must be prevented in time.
Originally posted by KWCoronaThe reason is that a lot of the time, it is already too late once the bishop pins the knight. He's already accomplihed what he was trying to do. For instance, there are many lines in the Ruy Lopez where White needs to play an early h3 to stop Bg4, because that pin will be extremely tough to deal with. If you wait for Bg4 first and then play h3, he just moves back to h5 and then what are you going to do, open your king up by playing g4? Not if you're sane.
Its not a matter of attack. If I had already moved my bishop for the pin it makes perfect sense. I, however do not use knight pins very much at all in my attack. Pushing the pawn to prevent that with me as an opponant is just a wasted move. I just don't know why you don't deal with the problem if it arises rather than spending your opening moving pawns rather than pieces.
Originally posted by Natural ScienceWhen I started this post, I was only refering to people who pushed the pawns where it didn't seem neccesary. I am not an attacking player. I am more of a defender, which leads me in less aggressive positions. Knight pins have always seemed very aggressive and as such I tend to avoid them.
The reason is that a lot of the time, it is already too late once the bishop pins the knight. He's already accomplihed what he was trying to do. For instance, there are many lines in the Ruy Lopez where White needs to play an early h3 to stop Bg4, because that pin will be extremely tough to deal with. If you wait for Bg4 first and then play h3, ...[text shortened]... o h5 and then what are you going to do, open your king up by playing g4? Not if you're sane.
Pushing that pawn is a way to control a little more space for me. I like doing it, especially on the side I didn't castle on. I am not sure how it's a "target." It can be a tempo waster, but some positions are more forgiving of tempo wasting than others (closed positions generally).