Section 3b

Originally posted by SwissGambit
It is standard here for the admin not to reveal the details of his plans.

The new 'system' is to string people along with votes, changes, excuses, and promises. And throw in a token banning or two so that technically, people cannot say you did nothing.

What else am I supposed to think when no action is taken against a player who is throwing ...[text shortened]... in players in a tournament? Maybe RHP would rather just be a 'casual' chess site like Yahoo.

I think you hit the nail on the head here.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
It is standard here for the admin not to reveal the details of his plans.

The new 'system' is to string people along with votes, changes, excuses, and promises. And throw in a token banning or two so that technically, people cannot say you did nothing.

What else am I supposed to think when no action is taken against a player who is throwing ...[text shortened]... in players in a tournament? Maybe RHP would rather just be a 'casual' chess site like Yahoo.

Erm I hate to be the one to point this out, but most people who play OTB at clubs view online chess as a bit of a joke anyway.
I asked 2 veterans of my club if they'd like to play online & they both looked at each other, laughed & the club chairman (ECF 163) said "the internet's full of cheats".

Chess here is good for brushing-up on openings, trying some new ideas & maybe in-game combinative analysis. If you're 2000+ forget it - half the time you'll probably be playing a CPU.

Originally posted by no1marauder
What a surprise; every post you've made on this issue for the last six months has been "Let's just see what Russ is going to do!" Unsurprisingly the answer has invariably been "Nothing of consequence".

I must agree with this. the only actions I've seen have been against cheat detection. and what the hell is 'he almost gave up' crap supposed to mean? because if the options were 1) give up, and 2) obstruct/sabotage cheat detection (which is exactly what the admins have been doing the last year), well neither of those are enough, not by a long shot.

so now we have absolutely nothing. except words which might turn out empty once again. they say things are going to change in a week. but refuse to give any real information, let alone show any action. should we just assume the best once again? hope for a change once again? because they've said a lot of things, none of which has lead to known cheaters getting banned.

even a vigilante system would be far better than no system at all.

why the hell are they so reluctant to banning cheaters?? it's ridiculous.

Originally posted by no1marauder
There was already a system that did that. The problem seems to be that the Site Admins stopped doing their job and acting on the recommendations of the Game Mods. Why would I expect the same Site Admins who blocked the enforcement of bannings against those found to be cheaters by the Game Mods to do better on their own esp. when they are not very competent in chess?

You don't know all the facts.

Start with the fact that initially a Game Mod was accused of cheating although that accusation has never been proven and perhaps you can come to the conclusion that there is a reason why Admin can't act.

They need a new system in place that works and people feel comfortable with but that is not the easiest thing in the world to actually achieve or are we supposed to assume the only person with integity who could actually do anything is you.

I have said before that the Game Mods have a hard job and if they can't agree among themselves or, heaven forbid, end up accusing each other what is Admin supposed to do, ban everyone!

The problem is being worked on and I am sure those cheaters who you feel concerned about will eventually get their marching orders and I suggest unil then you avoid playing them.

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
Erm I hate to be the one to point this out, but most people who play OTB at clubs view online chess as a bit of a joke anyway.
I asked 2 veterans of my club if they'd like to play online & they both looked at each other, laughed & the club chairman (ECF 163) said "the internet's full of cheats".

Chess here is good for brushing-up on openings, trying ...[text shortened]... ive analysis. If you're 2000+ forget it - half the time you'll probably be playing a CPU.

I am over 2000. Should I cancel my RHP subscription?

Most people who play just OTB at clubs are not invested in corr chess, or online chess, so it is no surprise that they have not thought things through.

If they did, they'd realize that a system based on how often a player's moves match those of engine would effectively remove the more blatant cheats. RHP had such a system, and scrapped it without sufficient explanation. The system was working. So what if it could not catch every single cheat. Just the fact that a serious effort was being made to eradicate cheats was enough to satisfy strong players.

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
The problem is being worked on and I am sure those cheaters who you feel concerned about will eventually get their marching orders and I suggest unil then you avoid playing them.

And if you're paired against them in a tournament....?

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I am over 2000. Should I cancel my RHP subscription?

That's up to you. It depends what you play here for.
If online chess is "your thing" & OTB really isn't then fair enough.

Quite frankly I'd be shocked if less than 50% of the people on pages 1 through 6 on the player tables had not used an engine for at least some of their games, or to see if that combination really is winning etc.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
And if you're paired against them in a tournament....?

I usually lose and think I've been beaten by am engine but amazingly I sometimes win and find out later I beat an engine when I feel chuffed.

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
You don't know all the facts.

Start with the fact that initially a Game Mod was accused of cheating although that accusation has never been proven and perhaps you can come to the conclusion that there is a reason why Admin can't act.

They need a new system in place that works and people feel comfortable with but that is not the easiest thing in the ...[text shortened]... out will eventually get their marching orders and I suggest unil then you avoid playing them.

I'm tired of your BS "well, what are you going do" attitude towards cheats. The vast majority of players here have continually rejected it. The Game Mod system is fine in theory and practice IF the Site Admins cooperate and ban those found to be cheats. If they don't, the system breaks down but who's fault is that?

Game Mods should be treated no differently than anybody else; if there is sufficient evidence they are cheating, they should get banned. The Cludi incident was supposed to be resolved by the new team; it never was leaving a cloud of suspicion over the competence and impartiality of certain members of the team. The whole new team was supposed to be vetted; apparently this did not happen and internal squabbling ensued. Every promise we were made regarding the system was ignored or broken.

It's quite simple; name one player of unquestioned competence and integrity head Game Mod and give him the power to ban cheats after consultation with the other Game Mods. Toss any Game Mod who is even questionable from the team. Solve the problem, not just continue to delay and procrastinate while obvious and blatant cheats continue to pollute the site while 90% of the players here want engine users banned.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I'm tired of your BS "well, what are you going do" attitude towards cheats. The vast majority of players here have continually rejected it. The Game Mod system is fine in theory and practice IF the Site Admins cooperate and ban those found to be cheats. If they don't, the system breaks down but who's fault is that?

Game Mods should be tr ...[text shortened]... heats continue to pollute the site while 90% of the players here want engine users banned.

well said!

Originally posted by no1marauder
I'm tired of your BS "well, what are you going do" attitude towards cheats. The vast majority of players here have continually rejected it. The Game Mod system is fine in theory and practice IF the Site Admins cooperate and ban those found to be cheats. If they don't, the system breaks down but who's fault is that?

Game Mods should be tr ...[text shortened]... heats continue to pollute the site while 90% of the players here want engine users banned.

Its not BS. I'm being pragmatic and trying to see the facts through your BS.

I want these guys banned just as much as you but there are certain problems and a new system will be put in place hopefully to solve those problems.

You don't solve anything in life by knocking things and you need suggestions, ideas, improvements that work. Its easy to criticise what doesn't work, far harder to find solutions that do.

I think Russ should try to get one or two people onboard as game mods who are previously independent of this site & have reasonable knowledge & experience of the game.
Either that, or leave it as a free-for-all, á la yahoochess.

I know this sounds impractical, but it's the only way that decisions can be enforced without bias or prejudice. Being a current (or former) game mod should not be a means to exclude anyone from this process either.

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
Its not BS. I'm being pragmatic and trying to see the facts through your BS.

I want these guys banned just as much as you but there are certain problems and a new system will be put in place hopefully to solve those problems.

You don't solve anything in life by knocking things and you need suggestions, ideas, improvements that work. Its easy to criticise what doesn't work, far harder to find solutions that do.

In case you can't read, I just made a suggestion. What have you done?

Originally posted by no1marauder
In case you can't read, I just made a suggestion.

Maybe that is what Russ is doing.
How long do you think it would take to find one player of unquestioned competence and integrity that the Admins could trust - 6 months, perhaps?

Originally posted by Hindstein
Maybe that is what Russ is doing.
How long do you think it would take to find one player of unquestioned competence and integrity that the Admins could trust - 6 months, perhaps?

Infinity with these Site Admins esp. when they weren't looking.

Dave Tebb is the obvious choice.

If it is what he's doing, why not just announce it?