Only Chess
22 Jun 06
22 Jun 06
Originally posted by jgvaccaroGrob's is a bit of a joke. The King's Gambit offers the same, but with more reliability.
I've been playing Grob's attack (1 g4) of late and it's definitely resulted in some wide-open tactical games. It's surprising how many players around my level (c. 1400) have dropped a piece to Qa4+ with a double attack, or gone down a pawn early after Qxb7. I'm sure I'd get picked apart against quality opposition, but then again that would happen no mat ...[text shortened]... At least this way the losses are quick and dramatic instead of slow and suffocatng....
22 Jun 06
Originally posted by cmsMasterA GM once said that below master level, all openings are sound. I suspect he was right. Personally I think the surprise value of the Grob, and the possibility that it will lead the opponent to underestimate you or try too hard to punish you for incorrect play, may outweigh its "unreliability" at the levels where I (and perhaps you too) play.
Grob's is a bit of a joke. The King's Gambit offers the same, but with more reliability.
Even if not, the minor disadvantage that accrues no doubt pales in comparison to my glaring tactical, strategic and endgame weaknesses.
And I do enjoy getting those cheapie queen forks. 🙂
22 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by jgvaccaromay outweigh its "unreliability" at the levels where I (and perhaps you too) play.
A GM once said that below master level, all openings are sound. I suspect he was right. Personally I think the surprise value of the Grob, and the possibility that it will lead the opponent to underestimate you or try too hard to punish you for incorrect play, may outweigh its "unreliability" at the levels where I (and perhaps you too) play.
Even ...[text shortened]... cal, strategic and endgame weaknesses.
And I do enjoy getting those cheapie queen forks. 🙂
Speak for yourself, I'm sure the Grob is fun, but it does nothing to dominate the center or give you an edge in development. So I can't say that I'd very much like to use it as my primary opening.
EDIT: Looking through some of your games, (about 6) where you used the Grob, only ONCE did I say your opponent respond with e5 or d5 (generally considered the best response to the grob). This shows the weakness of your opponents, and their stupidity for not using DB's on a CC site...
23 Jun 06
Originally posted by cmsMasterWell, I suppose the fianchettoed light-square bishop the Grob tends to involve has something of an effect on the center. From my patzer's perspective it seems the Grob's chief drawback is the difficulty of protecting the king.
Speak for yourself, I'm sure the Grob is fun, but it does nothing to dominate the center or give you an edge in development. So I can't say that I'd very much like to use it as my primary opening.
Do you have an opinion about the GM quote I mentioned above? Do you think he's wrong? I tend to think that he's right, and that when mediocre players obsess about which opening to use they are missing the point.
As far as I'm concerned at my level it's far more important to understand the ins and outs of your chosen opening (whatever it may be) than to worry about which openings are objectively best. And I imagine that if I manage to advance as a player it'll be because my board vision and tactical acumen improve, not because I start playing "sounder" openings.
But that's just my opinion, and not a very educated one. I'd be interested in hearing what more skilled and experienced players have to say.
23 Jun 06
Originally posted by jgvaccaroYeah, of course he's right. I've won using the Hammerschlag (1.f3 e5 2.Kf2) But tell me, what are the "ins and outs of the grob?! It's better for beginners to play 1.e4 or 1.d4, because it helps them learn basic opening theory based on positional play. The grob doesn't do this as well.
Well, I suppose the fianchettoed light-square bishop the Grob tends to involve has something of an effect on the center. From my patzer's perspective it seems the Grob's chief drawback is the difficulty of protecting the king.
Do you have an opinion about the GM quote I mentioned above? Do you think he's wrong? I tend to think that he's right, and th ...[text shortened]... I'd be interested in hearing what more skilled and experienced players have to say.
23 Jun 06
5 edits
Originally posted by cmsMasterWell, I can't claim to know what the ins and outs of the Grob are (except for a couple simple traps that people seem to occasionally fall for). The basic ideas seem to be to control the long light-square diagonal with the fianchettoed bishop, to prepare the pawns for a possible kingside charge, maybe also to convince black to overextend himself in the center. It also tends to take black out of book sooner, which is nice for those of us who aren't that interested in opening theory. 🙂
But tell me, what are the "ins and outs of the grob?! It's better for beginners to play 1.e4 or 1.d4, because it helps them learn basic opening theory based on positional play. The grob doesn't do this as well.
Perhaps the Grob doesn't teach basic opening theory as well as e4 or d4, but because it's likely to lead to a wide-open game, I figure it might be useful for tactical training. And these pedagogical considerations have little to do with the opening's competitive soundness or lack thereof.
Anyway, I'm not trying to be some sort of wild-eyed Grob evangelist here, just suggesting that it's a workable (and sharp) option for a middling player.
23 Jun 06
Originally posted by jgvaccaroI understand, but I still think there are better choices for active and tactical openings. The King's Gambit being one 😉.
Well, I can't claim to know what the ins and outs of the Grob are (except for a couple simple traps that people seem to occasionaly fall for). The basic ideas seem to be to control the long light-square diagonal with the fianchettoed bishop, to prepare the pawns for a possible kingside charge, maybe also to convince black to overextend himself in the cent ...[text shortened]... list here, just to suggest that it's a workable (and sharp) option for a middling player.
23 Jun 06
Originally posted by jgvaccaroThere are any number of reasons why I would never consider playing the Grob. One that springs immediately to mind is that I'd hardly feel comfortable playing an opening that virtually rules out king-side castling on move one!
A GM once said that below master level, all openings are sound. I suspect he was right. Personally I think the surprise value of the Grob, and the possibility that it will lead the opponent to underestimate you or try too hard to punish you for incorrect play, may outweigh its "unreliability" at the levels where I (and perhaps you too) play.
Even ...[text shortened]... cal, strategic and endgame weaknesses.
And I do enjoy getting those cheapie queen forks. 🙂
As black facing the Grob I once won a nice game with the following gambit set-up: e5, Nc6, Bc5 and then f5!?
24 Jun 06
Originally posted by jgvaccaroIt can be quiet. But play a few games against the Evans Gambit or Moller Attack and then tell me it's not sharp.
"Sharp" means tactical and dangerous, so I don't think the giuoco piano really qualifies. After all, the name means "quiet game."
24 Jun 06
2 edits
Originally posted by mtthwThat's true, the name is a bit of a misnomer. But the post didn't specify any lines, so I thought it was more likely to be a misunderstanding.
It can be quiet. But play a few games against the Evans Gambit or Moller Attack and then tell me it's not sharp.
01 Dec 06
I personally prefer the Smith Morra as white. The Danish Gambit, Kings bishop Gambit, Even the Center game occcaionally.
As Black I like the Scandanavian, The Elephant gambit, and the Dutch defense. I have even been known to spring the Lativan counter gambit on an unsuspecting player. I have yet to use that on this site though. More's the pity!
01 Dec 06
Originally posted by wolftunethe Danish Gambit is crap as black can diffuse it easily
I personally prefer the Smith Morra as white. The Danish Gambit, Kings bishop Gambit, Even the Center game occcaionally.
As Black I like the Scandanavian, The Elephant gambit, and the Dutch defense. I have even been known to spring the Lativan counter gambit on an unsuspecting player. I have yet to use that on this site though. More's the pity!
1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 d5!