space

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Recently followed a game where white used space to trade down and go into an
endgame where his advantage in space would be underlined, just wondering if
there are any other scenarios in which the use of space may be utilised - thanks in
advance Robbie,


here is the game, its clear that blacks passive play resulted in going into an
endgam 6 20. Nxc6 Bxc6 21. Bb6 Rd7 22. b4 Rc8 23. Kb3 Rdd8 24. Bxd8 Rxd8 25. e5 *[/pgn]

23..Rdd8 definitely gets '??' IMO, what a terrible blunder! I like the transposition from a QG to a Sicilian, i don't think i've seen that one before. 🙂

EDIT: Oh yeh, who were the players?

Originally posted by Zaubernuss
Michael Stean's classic Simple Chess has an excellent chapter on space.

So does Znosko-Borovsky's The Middle Game in Chess.

if you get space, you take it. sooner or later the opponent will run out of moves and implode. it's a game of numbers: in a cramped position there will be less moves available, and hence a greater probability of NOT having a good enough response.


a blitz game on ICC a moment ago:

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
23..Rdd8 definitely gets '??' IMO, what a terrible blunder! I like the transposition from a QG to a Sicilian, i don't think i've seen that one before. 🙂

EDIT: Oh yeh, who were the players?

Ok, 23. ...Rdd8 is forced for black has no way to defend against b5, trapping the bishop, black therefore was forced to sacrifice the exchange rather than lose a piece, for if you notice the position of the bishop on c6 with the rook on d7 its simply trapped. The players were, Kiselev and Cherniaev and the game was played in 1992,

after 10...c6 blacks two bishops are reduced to rather large pawns and you and i both know he could have avoided this simply by playing 1...d5, never the less an excellent use of space i must say.

EDIT: sorry post meant for wormwoods ICC blitz game.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That first game you posted, why did black pull that boner with the rook at the end? The game was over in two moves. Didn't seem like much of a strategic game to me.

Ok, 23. ...Rdd8 is forced for black has no way to defend against b5, trapping the bishop, black therefore was forced to sacrifice the exchange rather than lose a piece, for if you notice the position of the bishop on c6 with the rook on d7 its simply trapped.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
after 10...c6 blacks two bishops are reduced to rather large pawns and you and i both know he could have avoided this simply by playing 1...d5, never the less an excellent use of space i must say.

EDIT: sorry post meant for wormwoods ICC blitz game.

yeah, didn't need to think on almost any of the moves. there's probably loads of better moves, for both sides. it's not an especially good game. but that's not the point. the point is he gave me space, I took it. no calculation required, no need to even look for great moves. easy game for me, painful suffering being squeezed to death for him.

Originally posted by wormwood
yeah, didn't need to think on almost any of the moves. there's probably loads of better moves, for both sides. it's not an especially good game. but that's not the point. the point is he gave me space, I took it. no calculation required, no need to even look for great moves. easy game for me, painful suffering being squeezed to death for him.

Is there a tactic in that final position?

Originally posted by Goshen
Is there a tactic in that final position?

no, I think he resigned mostly out of frustration. he was also so much down in time there was no hope, at all. I had used maybe a minute.

Originally posted by wormwood
no, I think he resigned mostly out of frustration. he was also so much down in time there was no hope, at all. I had used maybe a minute.

Okay thanks. Was a bit bewildered.

shirov vs tiviakov, same story, different moves. I can't remember ever seeing a top GM pushed into such a miserable position.

“The seeds of defeat lie in a cramped position” –Siegbert Tarrasch

The more space you have the more mobile your pieces are to
switch attack from one spot to another. They can react better.

Space itself is not the game winner, you need a weakness or better
still two weakness's to hit.
You must have seen a game note 'Black is cramped but has no obvious weakness.'

The plus is with the space holder but he must find a way in.
If he screws it up then all those space grabbing pawn moves are suddenly
exposed as weakening.

This relatively unknown miniature game made it's mark on me when I first it.
White looks very impressive but the weakness's left behind are exploited
by tactics.

Csmon - Korchnoi 1965

That's a really slick game, Greenpawn. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
“The seeds of defeat lie in a cramped position” –Siegbert Tarrasch

The more space you have the more mobile your pieces are to
switch attack from one spot to another. They can react better.

Space itself is not the game winner, you need a weakness or better
still two weakness's to hit.
You must have seen a game note 'Black is cramped but has no ...[text shortened]... 2 Nd3+
15. Kd2 Nxb2 16. Be2 Bxg4 {White resigned here.} 17. Bxg4 Nxc4+ 18. Kd3 Nxe3[/pgn]

What a well-balanced post!

GM Dorfman makes the case that space is neither an advantage nor a disadvantage per se, and that it is the other intrinsic factors of the position that determine its value or disadvantage. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not, and you have to look at other factors before that question can be answered.

Personally, I consider the "on -board debates" between Four Pawn Attack- and Austrian Attack-type players on the one hand, and KID-Alekhine's-Hippo players on the other hand to be one of the great ongoing stories of chess.