the modern defense......

Against 1.b3, I'll play 1...f5 or 1...e5

Against 1.b4, I'll play 1...e5

but if it does not transpose to KID...can you give some examples where it does not transpose to KID?(as i am already a KID player)...is it a kind of Pirc ?

Originally posted by vipiu
but if it does not transpose to KID...can you give some examples where it does not transpose to KID?(as i am already a KID player)...is it a kind of Pirc ?

You missed the point of my other post.

Without the black knight on f6, it's not a King's Indian Defense.

If there's a black knight on f6 and a white pawn on c2, it is a Pirc Defense.

Pirc:

1.e4 d6
2.d4 Nf6
3.Nc3 g6

KID:

1.d4 Nf6
2.c4 g6]
3.Nc3 Bg7
4.e4 d6

Neither:

1.e4 g6
2.d4 Bg7
3.c4 d6

No Nf6

No examples needed.

EDITS: I love edits 😀

Originally posted by vipiu
but if it does not transpose to KID...can you give some examples where it does not transpose to KID?(as i am already a KID player)...is it a kind of Pirc ?

If black does not play Nf6 then very often you get the Averbakh System. One move order is 1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. e4 Nc6. White can play his moves in any order provided he plays c4 before Nc3. This is often the choice of black players who play Modern or Pirc but don't like the theory in the KID. The Averbakh is probably just as tricky as the KID but few white players will have bothered to look it up so black likely has the advantage of knowledge even if he hasn't studied it that deeply.

Originally posted by Dutch Defense
It's not the KID without the knight on f6 😛

then white can just play 4.Nf3 instead of 4.Nc3 and go into a KID or if black plays 4...Bg4 then a Neo-Old Indian.

BTW: I read it wrong I thought it did say ...Nf6.

Originally posted by tomtom232
then white can just play 4.Nf3 instead of 4.Nc3 and go into a KID or if black plays 4...Bg4 then a Neo-Old Indian.

BTW: I read it wrong I thought it did say ...Nf6.

You're still missing the point!

You cannot go to the KID without a black knight on f6. The quoted post doesn't show that so you're still missing the point.

Originally posted by Dutch Defense
[b]You're still missing the point!

You cannot go to the KID without a black knight on f6. The quoted post doesn't show that so you're still missing the point.[/b]

When white plays 4.Nf3 the most reasonable responses are ...Nf6 or ...Bg4 which would be the KID or the Neo-Old Indian ...Nc6 is playable but it isn't as good as it is when white plays 4.Nc3.

Originally posted by tomtom232
When white plays 4.Nf3 the most reasonable responses are ...[b]Nf6 or ...Bg4 which would be the KID or the Neo-Old Indian ...Nc6 is playable but it isn't as good as it is when white plays 4.Nc3.[/b]

If black plays Nf6, then you'll go to the KID. Otherwise, it's not.

Originally posted by Dutch Defense
[b]If black plays Nf6, then you'll go to the KID. Otherwise, it's not.[/b]

that is my point he either goes into the KID( this hypothetical person is not good at KID) or into an inferior line or still other lines that are very similar to the KID.

Originally posted by tomtom232
that is my point he either goes into the KID( this hypothetical person is not good at KID) or into an inferior line or still other lines that are very similar to the KID.

okay, I'm outta here

!~Tony~! is a very solid KID player, he knows his scheis.

BTW, playing 1...g6 doesn't really force either player into anything, it's quite flexible.

Originally posted by cmsMaster
!~Tony~! is a very solid KID player, he knows his scheis.

BTW, playing 1...g6 doesn't really force either player into anything, it's quite flexible.

I was just saying that if you don't like the KID or similar lines then don't play it.

I know him personally. Here's a game we had.

Grünfeld Defense

Game 4072419

Originally posted by Dutch Defense
I know him personally. Here's a game we had.

Grünfeld Defense

Game 4072419

Yes, he enjoys beating the crap out of me:

Game 2579064
Game 2566968

We have two in progress now also.