Originally posted by PacifiqueIt's always fun to see the top guys miss stuff like us much weaker players. However I would have preferred it today if Gelfand hadn't blundered as it would have been very interesting to see how Anand would have pressed for a win.
Game decided by blunder. Are fans of "real chess" happy now?
I wish Korch still posted in this forum, he would have had something interesting to say. But, alas, he hasn't been seen in these parts for a long time now...
Originally posted by vipiuWith such a play Gelfand would lose game 1. Claims like about "blunder every 5-10 moves" should be based by facts instead of your assumptions.
just give the guys a difficult sharp position(not analyzed at home) and they will blunder every 5-10 moves. Spare me with remarks that the first games were drawn due to their perfect play and preparation. They are not engines.
Originally posted by Fat Ladyrephrased:
It's always fun to see the top guys miss stuff like us much weaker players. However I would have preferred it today if Gelfand hadn't blundered as it would have been very interesting to see how Anand would have pressed for a win.
I wish Korch still posted in this forum, he would have had something interesting to say. But, alas, he hasn't been seen in these parts for a long time now...
But, alas, he hasn't been seen in these parts for a long time now...using the handle Korch!
Originally posted by Fat LadyVery interesting.
[pgn]
[FEN "rn1qr1k1/pp3p1p/3p2p1/2pP3n/2P3P1/2N2P2/PP1Q3P/Rb1K1B1R w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
{--------------
r n . q r . k .
p p . . . p . p
. . . p . . p .
. . p P . . . n
. . P . . . P .
. . N . . P . .
P P . Q . . . P
R b . K . B . R
white to play
--------------}
1. Rxb1 Qf6 2. gxh5 Qxf3+ 3. Kc2 Qxh1 4. Qf2 Nc6 5. Be2 Nd4+
6. Kd2 Qxb1 7. Nxb1 Rxe2+ 8. Qxe2 Nxe2
[/pgn]
Originally posted by vipiuSo these 2 games are evidence on "blundering each 5-10 moves" in all complicated positions??? 😲
last KID Anand - Nakamura, last some dutch guy - Anand in Germany Team League tournament
Btw. could you point out all blunders made by Anand and compare with blunder made by Gelfand?
Originally posted by vipiuI guess you did mean Tiviakov - Anand game:
last KID Anand - Nakamura, last some dutch guy - Anand in Germany Team League tournament
Please be so kind and point out moves which can be called "blunders". It seems to me that Anand was outplayed in strategy. Or did i miss something?
strategic bad moves are also blunders...
As I said every 5-10 moves in complicated positions not analyzed earlier at home...this would let me too much freedom to decide what is complicated and what it is not and what is already analyzed position and what it is not.
in German league he also had another lost position(against Eljanov I think)but as the position was complex the other human also blundered so it finished in a draw.
Had he played any other games in the last half year or so that were not simple theoretical draws ?
Originally posted by vipiuI`ll repeat my question again - can you point out these blunders?
strategic bad moves are also blunders...
As I said every 5-10 moves in complicated positions not analyzed earlier at home...this would let me too much freedom to decide what is complicated and what it is not and what is already analyzed position and what it is not.
in German league he also had another lost position(against Eljanov I think)but as the positi ...[text shortened]... d he played any other games in the last half year or so that were not simple theoretical draws ?
And has not played too many games this year. But it was easy to find a game which was not "simple theoretical draw".
Well at last we see a game with blood flowing and that a
lot of us can understand. I like Fat Lady's line. Gelfand could have
played on longer at least to get past the 25 move stage so it won't
appear in future collections of miniatures.
In the '72 match Game 11 (The Poison Pawn Spassky win) People could not
understand why Fischer dragged out the game to move 31.
Round about move 24 he is reported to have asked the TC Lothar Schmid
what the shortest WC loss was.
Lothar was not too sure but mumbled something like 27 moves.
-----
Proof again that these guys are looking at RHP games.
Rostin - dd2 Game 1848405
White has just played 15.Be2.
The Black Queen is trapped with the same pattern as in Game 8.
(15...Rf8 16.Qxf8+ Kxf8 17.Rxh1 was played and White went onto to win.)
Originally posted by Pacifiquehttp://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8082
I`ll repeat my question again - can you point out these blunders?
And has not played too many games this year. But it was easy to find a game which was not "simple theoretical draw".
[pgn][Event "Bundesliga"] [Site "Baden Baden GER"] [Date "2012.04.15"] [EventDate "2011.10.14"] [Round "15"] [Result "1-0"] [White "Viswanathan Anand"] [Black "Rainer Bu ...[text shortened]... 6 Rg3 62. b4 Rxh3 63. b5 Rh1 64. b6 Rb1 65. b7 Rxb7 66. Kxb7 1-0[/pgn]
they analyze here Tiviakov - Anand game.Black moves marked with ? are blunders:
11.a4 b6 A highly dubious choice according to Tiviakov.
25.f4 gxf4? Impatience? Frustration? The problem is that this not only doesn't solve any of Black's problems, but it opens up the g-file for White. Black's serious lack of space and mobility means that he cannot switch from one side to the next as quickly as his opponent. Had he left it to White to exchange, then it would have been the f-file opened, and would be far easier to keep control of both
37.e3 d7? Missing a shot that Tiviakov also missed with the time control approaching.
There are blunders and blunders...some blunders are spotted even by amateurs players like me, some blunders are spotted by GMs, some blunders are only spotted by GM+engine...
Originally posted by vipiu1) For your notice - blunders are marked with ??. So there are no blunders in the game, according to annotator.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8082
they analyze here Tiviakov - Anand game.Black moves marked with ? are blunders:
11.a4 b6 A highly dubious choice according to Tiviakov.
25.f4 gxf4? Impatience? Frustration? The problem is that this not only doesn't solve any of Black's problems, but it opens up the g-file for White. Black's seriou ...[text shortened]... ers like me, some blunders are spotted by GMs, some blunders are only spotted by GM+engine...
2) If you are not familiar with English - blunder is a very poor move, obvious mistake. Dubious is something arousing doubt, questionable. So if someone calls move dubious, it does not mean that the move is blunder.
3) Missed shot was marked with !! which means - a very strong move. Making a blunder does not mean making a good move instead of much better one.
Psychology of some "chess fans":
Before the match - they are boring, weak, bad for chess etc. (despite of not knowing their play).
Short draw - (with masochist pleasure) I told you so, they are so boring!
Interesting & drawn game - why there are so many draws?
Interesting & decisive game - why they did not play "real chess" before?