Ok, so I was playing a "live" 20 min. game online last night. I was down a pawn for most of the game, but still doing fairly well from a positional standpoint (I think). Anyway, about 3/4 of the way through the game, my opponent offers me a draw. I see that he's running very low on time so I refuse the draw and keep playing, hoping for some kind of blunder on his end. My opponent kept repeating his annoying draw offers (6x), until finally giving up on that angle. Towards the very end, we'd traded off all except one of our pieces and I was left with a bishop, the only remaining piece on the board (there were still several pawns left). At that point, my opponent had only a minute to go on his clock (I had about 5 min. remaining), so I just danced around with the bishop, allowing his time to expire. After my opponent's clock ran out and I had won the game, he started sending me all sorts of nasty messages saying "you suck", "flagger"...etc. Personally, I think that's just part of the game and it's a very legitimate win. Of course I'd rather win by checkmate or resignation, but my opponent was implying that I was some kind of a bad sport by not accepting the draw.
What do you think?
For anyone who's interested, here's the game:
[Event "ICC 20 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2005.11.28"]
[Round "-"]
[White "smotanjak"]
[Black "rbmorris"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ICCResult "White forfeits on time"]
[WhiteElo "1452"]
[BlackElo "1414"]
[Opening "Queen's pawn"]
[ECO "A40"]
[NIC "QO.17"]
[Time "21:38:35"]
[TimeControl "1200+0"]
1. d4 e6 2. e3 d5 3. c4 c6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. b3 b6 6. Nf3 Ba6 7. Be2 Be7 8. Bb2
O-O 9. O-O Nbd7 10. Qd2 Qc7 11. a3 e5 12. cxd5 Bxe2 13. Qxe2 cxd5 14. Nb5
Qb8 15. dxe5 Ne4 16. Bd4 Ndc5 17. Qc2 Rc8 18. Bxc5 Rxc5 19. Qe2 a6 20. Nbd4
Qc7 21. b4 Rc4 22. Qb2 b5 23. Rac1 Nc3 24. Kh1 Na4 25. Rxc4 Qxc4 26. Qc1 Rc8
27. Qxc4 Rxc4 28. Nd2 Rc8 29. N2b3 Nb6 30. Rc1 Rxc1+ 31. Nxc1 Nc4 32. Nc2
Kf8 33. f4 Ke8 34. Kg1 Kd7 35. Kf1 Ke6 36. Ke2 Kf5 37. Nd4+ Kg4 38. Nc2 g5
39. g3 gxf4 40. exf4 Kf5 41. Kf3 Nd2+ 42. Ke2 Nc4 43. Kf3 h6 44. Ne2 f6 45.
Ned4+ Kg6 46. e6 Kg7 47. f5 Kf8 48. g4 Ne5+ 49. Kf4 Ke8 50. h3 Kf8 51. Nf3
Nd3+ 52. Ke3 Nb2 53. Kd4 Na4 54. Kxd5 Nb6+ 55. Kc6 Nc4 56. Nfd4 Ke8 57. Kb7
a5 58. Ka6 axb4 59. Nxb4 Nxa3 60. Nxb5 Bxb4 61. Nxa3 Bxa3 62. Kb5 Be7 63.
Kc4 Kf8 64. Kd5 Ke8 65. Kc6 Kd8 66. Kd5 Kc7 67. Ke4 Kd8 68. Kd5 Ke8 69. Kc6
Kf8 70. Kd7 Ba3 71. Kd8 Be7+ 72. Kd7 Bc5 73. Kc7 Ke7 74. Kc6 Bd6 75. Kd5 Bh2
76. Ke4 Bb8 77. Kd5 Bc7 78. Ke4 Ba5 {White forfeits on time} 0-1
Originally posted by rbmorrisWell, to the best of my knowledge, this is the way it is in a real tournament:
Ok, so I was playing a "live" 20 min. game online last night. I was down a pawn for most of the game, but still doing fairly well from a positional standpoint (I think). Anyway, about 3/4 of the way through the game, my opponent offers me a draw. I see that he's running very low on time so I refuse the draw and keep playing, hoping for some kind of bl ...[text shortened]... c7 Ke7 74. Kc6 Bd6 75. Kd5 Bh2
76. Ke4 Bb8 77. Kd5 Bc7 78. Ke4 Ba5 {White forfeits on time} 0-1
If the game seems in a drawn position, and you believe (with good reason) that your opponent is making no effort to win except on time, you can request that an arbiter call the game a draw. The arbiter will require evidence to declare a draw (usually watching the game for a while), and if he believes this to be the case, the game is declared a draw. If he disagrees, your opponent gets an extra minute on the clock.
Someone want to clarify this?
However, Internet chess is almost like a whole other game. There are no arbiters, and therefore you are perfectly able to waste time and try to drop the opponent's flag. It's maybe a less good way to win, but it does happen. Odds are he probably would have done the same thing in your position (I probably would have).
So overall, I think this is a legitimate (if unsportsmanlike) way to win and he had no right to insult you or harass you afterwards.
Originally posted by lukemcmullanI don't play otb tournaments, but surely if you're playing under time control it's entirely legitimate to try to win solely on time?
Well, to the best of my knowledge, this is the way it is in a real tournament:
If the game seems in a drawn position, and you believe (with good reason) that your opponent is making no effort to win except on time, you can request that an arbiter call the game a draw. The arbiter will require evidence to declare a draw (usually watching the game for ...[text shortened]... mate (if unsportsmanlike) way to win and he had no right to insult you or harass you afterwards.
Originally posted by Sicilian SmaugWhen I'm playing on the Internet, I play the game on a real board on the desk in front of me, so I'm not distracted by anything on the screen. I don't seem to play that well just off the screen anyway.
I've had this sort of thing on ICC many times. I used to play just there before august until i heard of this site and now i barely play on ICC at all. Played a few hours the last few evenings and had some good games. However the sportsmanship on that site is often abysmal. On 2 occasions i was winning convincingly with alot of time left so my opponen ...[text shortened]... ay you or message you again, Mine's at about 30 with new people added every time i go on there!
Originally posted by rbmorrisIt's perctly fair in internet chess. If you can't force the game to a conclusion within your time limit you lose. It's that simple.
Ok, so I was playing a "live" 20 min. game online last night. I was down a pawn for most of the game, but still doing fairly well from a positional standpoint (I think). Anyway, about 3/4 of the way through the game, my opponent offers me a draw. I see that he's running very low on time so I refuse the draw and keep playing, hoping for some kind of bl ...[text shortened]... c7 Ke7 74. Kc6 Bd6 75. Kd5 Bh2
76. Ke4 Bb8 77. Kd5 Bc7 78. Ke4 Ba5 {White forfeits on time} 0-1
Originally posted by Sicilian SmaugHere's a bit of fun. If your opponent is so badly lost that he decides to hate-wait, use the 'moretime 60' command right before his time runs to 0. It will prevent him from escaping from the game by flagging himself, and he will get that much more time to ponder his lost position. Plus, he can't play any other games on the server until he finally owns up and resigns. You'd be surprised how well this kills hate-waiting.
I've had this sort of thing on ICC many times. I used to play just there before august until i heard of this site and now i barely play on ICC at all. Played a few hours the last few evenings and had some good games. However the sportsmanship on that site is often abysmal. On 2 occasions i was winning convincingly with alot of time left so my opponen ...[text shortened]... ay you or message you again, Mine's at about 30 with new people added every time i go on there!
Originally posted by rbmorrisI had a similar situation occur in a blitz game last night. The game had been a somewhat sloppy affair, but we arrived in a Rook vs. Bishop/Pawn ending. It was likely a draw, but I was not sure, and his time was low, so I blitzed him and won on time. And I got the predictable whining and crying, etc.
Ok, so I was playing a "live" 20 min. game online last night. I was down a pawn for most of the game, but still doing fairly well from a positional standpoint (I think). Anyway, about 3/4 of the way through the game, my opponent offers me a draw. I see that he's running very low on time so I refuse the draw and keep playing, hoping for some kind of bl ...[text shortened]... c7 Ke7 74. Kc6 Bd6 75. Kd5 Bh2
76. Ke4 Bb8 77. Kd5 Bc7 78. Ke4 Ba5 {White forfeits on time} 0-1
Here's a question...if these people feel so strongly that time should not decide the game, why don't they play with an increment? That way, they'd be guaranteed to have at least one second to make each move. The answer? They're a bunch of hypocrites that have remorselessly flagged opponents in drawn games, yet they can't stand it when it's done to them.
What is the problem?
Biblical principles (don't do to others kind of stuff you wouldn't want to be done to you) don't fit here.
I agree with what likemcmullan wrote - internet chess has its own rules; so I don't see any unsportsmanlike behavior here, of course I would be annoyed if someone does the same to me - but I also don't like losing, so what - I mustn't try to win?
I know one site - flyordie.com - where program doesn't recognize 3-time repeat, so some players on that site can earn 2-3 seconds, and repeat their moves hundred times keeping few-seconds handicap and winning the game - this is really unsportsmanlike.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemVery good point! War is war.
I had a similar situation occur in a blitz game last night. The game had been a somewhat sloppy affair, but we arrived in a Rook vs. Bishop/Pawn ending. It was likely a draw, but I was not sure, and his time was low, so I blitzed him and won on time. And I got the predictable whining and crying, etc.
Here's a question...if these people feel so str ...[text shortened]... emorselessly flagged opponents in drawn games, yet they can't stand it when it's done to them.
It's not unsportsmanlike to win on time, whatever the chess format. Your opponent spent more time and still got into a worse position. Tough. Both players knew the time allowance at the start of the game and time is a factor throughout. How much better would your position have been (as the player with more time) if you'd spent longer on your moves?
S/he should resign- now that would sportsmanlike.